235 Out on This Par Five - What's the Play?

[pepsiplusconker]

I would be hitting a 3 wood at the left hand bunker, the wind will take some off it and exaggerate any cut / fade, which I always have with a 3 wood.

Best case on the green, next best at the front of the green, worst in the right hand bunker.

[Zeph]

I would hit it as far as I comfortably could. Going for the flag from 235 into the wind is taking a risk, so I'd rather aim for the middle of the green. If the wind is stronger than expected, you are short of the green or perhaps in a bunker. Going long seems like a bad idea, so probably not a 3 wood. I'll say 3 iron to center or a fade if you're up to it. Let's say the wind cancel out the downhill (hard to judge from pictures), you can land the ball somewhere around the front to middle of the green and roll out a bit. Or a hybrid to the flag if you're feeling lucky that day.

[ghalfaire]

Interesting thread and I have read almost all the posts.  I have to say there a lot of folks on this forum that can comfortably hit a 3W or 3I 235 yards over the trees and another larger group that can reliably fade a 3W that distance.  But not me.  Either of those shots would take a miracle shot for me to pull off. So I guess I don't think there is a "right" answer that fits everyone but rather you have to go with how your playing that day and your own abilities.  So I'll stick with my layup to about 100 yards and a  wedge in because that is my best chance for a birdie and I basically have near zero chance of making an Eagle from 235 yards out if there is any trouble or I have to "get it up over the trees" and carry it all.  Maybe in a scramble I'd give it a try but for me it is a very low percentage shot.  I admit to being envious of those of you that can pull it off consistently.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by ghalfaire

Interesting thread and I have read almost all the posts.  I have to say there a lot of folks on this forum that can comfortably hit a 3W or 3I 235 yards over the trees and another larger group that can reliably fade a 3W that distance.  But not me.  Either of those shots would take a miracle shot for me to pull off. So I guess I don't think there is a "right" answer that fits everyone but rather you have to go with how your playing that day and your own abilities.  So I'll stick with my layup to about 100 yards and a  wedge in because that is my best chance for a birdie and I basically have near zero chance of making an Eagle from 235 yards out if there is any trouble or I have to "get it up over the trees" and carry it all.  Maybe in a scramble I'd give it a try but for me it is a very low percentage shot.  I admit to being envious of those of you that can pull it off consistently.

Most people seemed to have missed the fact that we are supposed to figure out the right play "for someone of Erik's skill level" not our own varying abilities, I cannot consistently fade a 3W or drive a 3 iron 235 over some trees but that is irrelevant to the question.

The optional part of the question is what you think the right play would be at your skill level, that is where I, and many others, have chosen to lay up to a comfortable wedge distance whether that be a full wedge or partial wedge pitch/chip depending on what the player is most comfortable with.

[Robster 7]

[URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/32498/trackman-data-pga-tour-vs-lpga/72#post_890442]Almost all clubs hit by good players go to about 30 yards in peak height.[/URL] The longer clubs simply reach their peak height farther down-range.

I never knew that. Very interesting!

[Hacker James]

hmmmmm....losing proposition.  I wouldn't even comment on another's options without being very familiar with their game. Is this thread an honest effort of eliciting everyone's thought processes for general commentary, or is it being used as a method of boasting of your ability in a more subtle manner?  That being said, and IF I had the ability, I would favor hitting towards the left bunker laying up to provide a clean shot to the pin location and should I go long and end up in the bunker, there appears to be plenty of green to work with.  To go for the pin over the trees and the right bunker would take an extraordinary confidence but would be a risk/reward shot. If you pull it, you are in the left bunker or worse.  That is my assessment, which in reality means very little considering my current handicap. Now twenty years ago, another story.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Hacker James

hmmmmm....losing proposition.  I wouldn't even comment on another's options without being very familiar with their game. Is this thread an honest effort of eliciting everyone's thought processes for general commentary, or is it being used as a method of boasting of your ability in a more subtle manner?

I take it as a hypothetical with some baseline general assumptions, meant to elicit a discussion of golf strategy and course management.

[Ernest Jones]

Originally Posted by Hacker James

Is this thread an honest effort of eliciting everyone's thought processes for general commentary, or is it being used as a method of boasting of your ability in a more subtle manner?

Seriously?? Is that what you think was Iacas' purpose with this thread?

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I take it as a hypothetical with some baseline general assumptions, meant to elicit a discussion of golf strategy and course management.

Agreed. I think it relates to the book/project that Erik is working on with Dave and this thread is just some overflow from that process. A free (yet again) sneak peek so to speak.

LOL, sneak peek so to speak . That's fun to say, go ahead try it, sneak peek so to speak . LOL.

[Hacker James]

yah,probably.  I am a "bubble buster" but mostly due to past observations and perception and the "I can do no wrong" mantra. (again, my perception, not necessarily factual). Human nature dictates that we often get the wrong impression of another, and once that impression is formed, it is difficult to dispel.  I am quite sure that others' impressions of me are as equally ill conceived.

To answer Ernest's question...Yes, that is exactly what I think. I do not expect you to agree.  I would honestly have to qualify that by stating that I do not know him, but that is merely the perception I have formed based on the totality of the posts I have read.

[nick1998bunker]

I would be hitting a 3 wood at the left hand bunker, the wind will take some off it and exaggerate any cut / fade, which I always have with a 3 wood.  Best case on the green, next best at the front of the green, worst in the right hand bunker.

i think worst case is left hand bunker... That would be terrible considering the length, the other bunker you can get plenty of spin and hight to make it stop on a dime [quote name="Zeph" url="/t/69652/235-out-on-this-par-five-whats-the-play/60#post_891300"]I would hit it as far as I comfortably could. Going for the flag from 235 into the wind is taking a risk, so I'd rather aim for the middle of the green. If the wind is stronger than expected, you are short of the green or perhaps in a bunker. Going long seems like a bad idea, so probably not a 3 wood. I'll say 3 iron to center or a fade if you're up to it. Let's say the wind cancel out the downhill (hard to judge from pictures), you can land the ball somewhere around the front to middle of the green and roll out a bit. Or a hybrid to the flag if you're feeling lucky that day.[/quote] if he hits his hybrid with a high cut it will end up in the middle of the green and possibly chase up closer

[RadarNinja]

Yea... Statistically most if not all of you low double/ high single digit caps are going to miss the green from 235 anyway. There's no ideal play, as Hacket put it, very dependent on your individual skill level. I bet the scoring average on the hole would be significantly lower if most put away the 3-wood/ hybrids and laid up to a comfy wedge distance. I see a lot of thinned/ topped/ swipey fairway woods ending up in bad shape....

[cipher]

Yea... Statistically most if not all of you low double/ high single digit caps are going to miss the green from 235 anyway. There's no ideal play, as Hacket put it, very dependent on your individual skill level. I bet the scoring average on the hole would be significantly lower if most put away the 3-wood/ hybrids and laid up to a comfy wedge distance. I see a lot of thinned/ topped/ swipey fairway woods ending up in bad shape....

For most players I have not seen such a thing as a comfy wedge.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

I take it as a hypothetical with some baseline general assumptions, meant to elicit a discussion of golf strategy and course management.

I don't know about other folks, but I have all I can handle figuring out good strategy and course management for my own ability level without trying to put myself into the mental position of hitting shots I could never hit.  How can I possibly know the comfort level someone has in fading a 3-wood around some trees from 235 yards out when I have 0 experience playing such a shot or seeing the player in question pay that shot?  Even between 2 players of generally comparable ability each has strengths and weaknesses and they play a great role in what shot to play.  So if we are supposed to opine on the correct play based on Erik's description of his game, when almost all of us have never seen him hit a shot, then I don't really see the point or value.  I only know enough about MY game to make an intelligent answer as to what is the best play for ME.  Which is how I answered.

Someone made the analogy of this question and a chess problem.  The analogy is inapt because a chessboard is  definite defined playing field, and the moves of the chess pieces are definitely and consistently defined.  Neither of which is true of a golf course or the shot played on a golf course.

[Strandly]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

The optional part of the question is what you think the right play would be at your skill level...

235 is outside the range of any of my irons so I personally would just hit a 3i to the front of the green and wedge it from there.  /shrug

[RadarNinja]

But you see 10 cappers hitting 235 cuts at will into the wind.... Lol

[pepsiplusconker]

Originally Posted by nick1998bunker

i think worst case is left hand bunker... That would be terrible considering the length, the other bunker you can get plenty of spin and hight to make it stop on a dime

if he hits his hybrid with a high cut it will end up in the middle of the green and possibly chase up closer

What I mean is, me personally, it would never end up in that bunker, because 95% of shots with my woods go left to right slightly, so with the wind against me, its going to go even more left to right.

[cipher]

But you see 10 cappers hitting 235 cuts at will into the wind.... Lol

Read the question in the manner it was posed. I never said a 10 HC should hit a 235 cut did I?

[RadarNinja]

Read the question in the manner it was posed. I never said a 10 HC should hit a 235 cut did I?

I understand the question fine... A lot of responses were a bit unrealistic IMO. I guarantee that the stats would show a lower scoring average if most ams laid up. 235 is low % unless your advanced