Why does Tiger HAVE to hit the cut?

[Mr. Desmond]

He swings the club so fast the natural tendancy is to hit down on the ball, across the body. He controls it well most of the time but to hit an accurate draw with his swing speed would be much, much more difficult.

My swing speed is faster than the average guy and I tend to go after shots from the tee more so than off the fairway. I couldnt hit a controlled draw swinging the club at the same speed I hit a controlled fade / cut and Tiger likes to go after his shots more often than not.

You'd think he could hit a push draw without wailing away. Maybe he needs to check out another guru.

[minitour]

One of the things that intrigued me about Haney's book was nervousness Tiger had coming into a major tournament, particularly the first tee. I had him figured as stone cold ice in his veins.

I don't know how shocking that was to me.  If you listen to Rotella (or any psychologist that specializes in performance of some kind) the nervousness is a way of your body telling you that it matters .

If I ever got to the first tee at Augusta I'd probably vomit in my bag.  I don't think Tiger has it that bad, but it wouldn't surprise me that he's just as jittery on the first tee at Augusta as I am at a USGA qualifier.

[nick1998bunker]

Tiger like never goes after shots. If he does he should be down there over 330. And when I am playing a fade I have a tendency for it to go straight or slice and with a draw it either blocks or I can lose it right. I know that no matter what shot you are hitting its easy to just spray one with the driver. Which is what he is scared of

[Otis32]

Just my observation from watching tournaments but it seemed like early in the swing change Tiger was cutting almost every club in the bag. Even the wedges.

This year he has been way more versitile at working the ball but seems to trust the cut more off the tee and is hitting a lot more draws with his irons & fairway clubs. Particularly with the shorter clubs.

Can sympathize. For me draws with the driver tend to have catastophic consequences way too often and I have migrated to the cut/fade shot off the tee as well.  It isn't completely reliable obviously but the bad shots seem to end up in better places and my handicap is heading in the right direction again.

Off topic but I really wish the telecasts would use the Pro Tracer feature way more often.  I find it really interesting to see how these guys shape shots in different situations and also would love to see what shots they rely on when the chips are down and they need to keep the ball in play.

[rtylerg]

I absolutely think he would be better off hitting a draw on every shot.  He naturally hits a draw and it seems his body is always wanting to move in a draw-producing motion.  I think he just looks awkward trying to hit a fade/cut.  Look at Collin Montgomerie or Ian Poulter or other more lanky players hit fades and it just looks more natural for their body types and swings.  They're more upright which produces a better fade.  Tiger has been and is more flat which produces a nice draw.  Give him a driver with a 100 gram shaft, a 1 iron and a 2 iron and let him rip draws off the tee all day.

[Spitfisher]

Tiger like never goes after shots. If he does he should be down there over 330. And when I am playing a fade I have a tendency for it to go straight or slice and with a draw it either blocks or I can lose it right. I know that no matter what shot you are hitting its easy to just spray one with the driver. Which is what he is scared of

Tiger never goes after shots????

I disagree, he just doesn't use his driver that often for us to observe and secondly with a cut shot and side spin he loses 10-15% of his distance.

[Jakester23]

Tiger never goes after shots????

I disagree, he just doesn't use his driver that often for us to observe and secondly with a cut shot and side spin he loses 10-15% of his distance.

Im not an expert Spitfisher but I don't think a cut shot is any shorter than a draw. Erik would be a better person to ask but I think side spin is side spin. From what I understand theres a high and low draw and high and low fade. I don't think draw or fade adds or subtracts distance. I also don't think spin affects how fast approach shots stop on the green.

[Mr. Desmond]

Off topic but I really wish the telecasts would use the Pro Tracer feature way more often.  I find it really interesting to see how these guys shape shots in different situations and also would love to see what shots they rely on when the chips are down and they need to keep the ball in play.

It's also interesting to see how HIGH the pros launch their driver and how HIGH (very) the ball gets up.

I see so many guys at the range hitting their 9.5 and 10.5 drivers not high in the air. Then they hit a 12 degree driver where it gets up to a more optimal trajectory, shake their head and say, "that's too high."

It is actually still too low.

[wils5150]

A draw is longer than a fade. A fade usually is a softer landing shot where as a draw has more run out as a rule.

[MS256]

A draw is longer than a fade. A fade usually is a softer landing shot where as a draw has more run out as a rule.

My fades have more carry distance than my draws but the draws have more rollout. Which is longer in total distance depends on the rollout conditions.

[Otis32]

It's also interesting to see how HIGH the pros launch their driver and how HIGH (very) the ball gets up.

I see so many guys at the range hitting their 9.5 and 10.5 drivers not high in the air. Then they hit a 12 degree driver where it gets up to a more optimal trajectory, shake their head and say, "that's too high."

It is actually still too low.

For sure. How high they can hit the ball and still have a penetrating ball flight is amazing.

A pretty average tour pro will carry a 4-iron 225 yards over water and still stop it on a well bunkered par 3.

[colin007]

A draw is longer than a fade. A fade usually is a softer landing shot where as a draw has more run out as a rule.

All things being equal (AoA, launch angle, face angle, SS...) they will go the same distance with the same height and roll out.

[Mr. Desmond]

All things being equal (AoA, launch angle, face angle, SS...) they will go the same distance with the same height and roll out.

But when are all things equal?

[nick1998bunker]

It's also interesting to see how HIGH the pros launch their driver and how HIGH (very) the ball gets up. I see so many guys at the range hitting their 9.5 and 10.5 drivers not high in the air. Then they hit a 12 degree driver where it gets up to a more optimal trajectory, shake their head and say, "that's too high." It is actually still too low.

How high should it be. I'm working on swinging up on the driver and it goes too high I think

[mvmac]

We've covered draws vs fades in other threads, check out the links below.  This thread is about Tiger hitting a fade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wils5150

A draw is longer than a fade. A fade usually is a softer landing shot where as a draw has more run out as a rule.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colin007


All things being equal (AoA, launch angle, face angle, SS...) they will go the same distance with the same height and roll out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Desmond

But when are all things equal?

Draws don't necessarily go father than fades and don't necessarily land softer.  It's about impact conditions.  http://thesandtrap.com/t/46719/draw-vs-fade-iron-distance/18#post_606423

From this thread http://thesandtrap.com/t/64084/smash-factor-fade-v-draw

Quote:

It's very simple. The ball only cares about ball speed, launch angle, and spin axis. You can manipulate those to be the same (with the opposite tilt to the spin axis) and you'd get balls that fly exactly the same, but most people tend to a have lower spin loft than when hitting a draw than with the fade.

Spin loft is the three dimensional difference between where the clubface is pointing (the clubface "normal") and the three-dimensional path. Those two vectors (lines) form an angle and that angle is the spin loft.

Quote:

Draws go farther for a lot of amateurs because of how they arrive at impact. And not just amateurs, pros too, though they have the benefit of creating plenty of speed. You could easily make the case that a pull-fade goes farther than a push-draw, but in reality most pull-fades are hit with the handle back a little and more dynamic loft than a push-draw.

[Mr. Desmond]

How high should it be. I'm working on swinging up on the driver and it goes too high I think

Typically, I'd say two words -- Launch Monitor

Hop on one and get your numbers.

I watched Harrison Frazier several times in the early 00's hit driver at a private club when a fried would invite me... He hit his driver like a 300 yard 9i. I watch pros at the range at the Byron Nelson - some are high, some not ... I think some of it depends on their personal "window".

If he ball gets up gradually in a a screaming arc, flattens out, and descends shallowly with some roll. you've got something going. You don't want the ball to "balloon"

[nick1998bunker]

Typically, I'd say two words -- Launch Monitor Hop on one and get your numbers. I watched Harrison Frazier several times in the early 00's hit driver at a private club when a fried would invite me... He hit his driver like a 300 yard 9i. I watch pros at the range at the Byron Nelson - some are high, some not ... I think some of it depends on their personal "window". If he ball gets up gradually in a a screaming arc, flattens out, and descends shallowly with some roll. you've got something going. You don't want the ball to "balloon"

Well that's the problem. I was launching it at about 9-10 degrees but we were changing it to about 13-15 but on a trackman. I went to the range and was trying out the new shot and it would launch like 3 times as high is before and still rise. And every so often I would hit one that goes straight up and looks like it was coming backwards with the wind. I'm basically wondering what does 13 degrees I launch look like in real life? Maybe I'm launching it at like 18

[iacas]

I'm basically wondering what does 13 degrees I launch look like in real life?

Nick, with all due respect, please think about the questions you post before you post them. How on earth can anyone answer that question?

Here's my attempt: grilled cheese sandwich.

I'm being sarcastic, but not a lot - that answer is about as good as any other you could get.