• Announcements

    • iacas

      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:
Sign in to follow this  
Golfingdad

Ball Played from Lateral Never Leaves (26-2)

Recommended Posts

Golfingdad    1,850

I was watching the HSBC Championship last night and saw Rory McIlroy hit a big drive on a par 5 that he pushed right and through the fairway and into a big lateral water hazard.  His ball held up just prior to the pond but well within (10 feet maybe) the margin of the hazard.  He chose to play his next shot from that point, and chose to go for the green, which was all carry across the pond.  He didn't make it.  At that point, I realized I wasn't sure of his options so I had to go and look it up.  It looks like he has, generally, the same options as he normally would with one minor "difference."  He has to recall where his previous shot crossed into the hazard and use that point for proceeding under options 26-1b or 26-1c.  He can also choose to replay from the point his last shot PRIOR to entering the water hazard, if he so desired.

Further, there is one extra little caveat ... if he chooses 26-1a and then doesn't like the result of the drop, he can "change his mind" and use 26-1b or 26-1c so long as he adds one more stroke to his total.

Anyways, I think I got it all figured out, but thought I'd post it anyway just in case I screwed it all up.

Also, for the record, Rory chose 26-1b (via 26-2ia) and hit a 3-wood to about 12 feet, and then nearly making a par on the hole.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Dormie1360    63
I was watching the HSBC Championship last night and saw Rory McIlroy hit a big drive on a par 5 that he pushed right and through the fairway and into a big lateral water hazard.  His ball held up just prior to the pond but well within (10 feet maybe) the margin of the hazard.  He chose to play his next shot from that point, and chose to go for the green, which was all carry across the pond.  He didn't make it.  At that point, I realized I wasn't sure of his options so I had to go and look it up.  It looks like he has, generally, the same options as he normally would with one minor "difference."  He has to recall where his previous shot crossed into the hazard and use that point for proceeding under options 26-1b or 26-1c.  He can also choose to replay from the point his last shot PRIOR to entering the water hazard, if he so desired.

Further, there is one extra little caveat ... if he chooses 26-1a and then doesn't like the result of the drop, he can "change his mind" and use 26-1b or 26-1c so long as he adds one more stroke to his total.

Anyways, I think I got it all figured out, but thought I'd post it anyway just in case I screwed it all up.

Also, for the record, Rory chose 26-1b (via 26-2ia) and hit a 3-wood to about 12 feet, and then nearly making a par on the hole.

I would add that after the drop in the hazard, the player may also use 26-1a, return to the previous spot outside the hazard, and play adding the additional 1 PS.  This is called regression.

This decision gives a good example of how to apply R26-2 http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Decision-26/#26-2/1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Dormie1360    63

BTW, congratulations for correctly digesting the rule.  The last rules workshop I went to, the instructor joked that getting a 100 on the exam meant, among other things,  having to figure out the correct answer for the obligatory question on Rule 26-2.  Figuring out all the strokes and penalties can be tricky.

The following is more information if anyone is interested.

If you look at 26-2b, if the player played the ball from the hazard and the ball went OB, the player may drop a ball at the spot last played in the hazard.  He gets one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 whether he actually drops there or not.  If he does drop he can then play the stroke or, under a penalty of another stroke, play from outside the hazard under R26.  Whether or not he actually drops a ball at the spot in the hazard is up to him, as well as to whether or not he actually plays it.  If he plays from outside the hazard it's 2 total penalty strokes regardless.

The difference between the two rules is that with R26-2a, Rory's case, he was not required to drop a ball in the same spot under Rule 26, it was only 1of 4 possible choices. He could have just dropped outside the hazard incurring 1 penalty stroke .   If he decides to drop where he last played in the hazard, and it turned out to be a bad choice, he's stuck with a penalty for the drop plus another for the ability to drop outside the hazard. 2 penalty strokes total.  With R26-2b, if he would have hit a ball OB, he has to take the stroke and distance penalty under R27.   If he then chooses to drop outside the hazard, regardless if he dropped the ball inside the hazard or not, he has to add another penalty stroke.

What does all this mean .......if you play a ball from the hazard and you don't get out .  Understand that you can take your lumps and just drop outside the hazard with 1 penalty stroke .  If you take a chance and drop it in the hazard (maybe because a  drop outside the hazard is much farther away form the green), and it turns out to be a bad lie, oops.  It's another penalty stroke for a total of 2 PS to then drop outside of the hazard.

If on the other hand you play a stroke from the hazard and it goes OB, there is no risk for dropping it in the hazard to see what kind of lie you get.  Playing from outside the hazard is 2 PS , no matter if you first dropped it in the hazard or not.

I hope this makes sense. :~(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Asheville    78

BTW, congratulations for correctly digesting the rule.  The last rules workshop I went to, the instructor joked that getting a 100 on the exam meant, among other things,  having to figure out the correct answer for the obligatory question on Rule 26-2.  Figuring out all the strokes and penalties can be tricky.

The following is more information if anyone is interested.

If you look at 26-2b, if the player played the ball from the hazard and the ball went OB, the player may drop a ball at the spot last played in the hazard.  He gets one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 whether he actually drops there or not.  If he does drop he can then play the stroke or, under a penalty of another stroke, play from outside the hazard under R26.  Whether or not he actually drops a ball at the spot in the hazard is up to him, as well as to whether or not he actually plays it.  If he plays from outside the hazard it's 2 total penalty strokes regardless.

The difference between the two rules is that with R26-2a, Rory's case, he was not required to drop a ball in the same spot under Rule 26, it was only 1of 4 possible choices. He could have just dropped outside the hazard incurring 1 penalty stroke.   If he decides to drop where he last played in the hazard, and it turned out to be a bad choice, he's stuck with a penalty for the drop plus another for the ability to drop outside the hazard. 2 penalty strokes total.  With R26-2b, if he would have hit a ball OB, he has to take the stroke and distance penalty under R27.   If he then chooses to drop outside the hazard, regardless if he dropped the ball inside the hazard or not, he has to add another penalty stroke.

What does all this mean.......if you play a ball from the hazard and you don't get out.  Understand that you can take your lumps and just drop outside the hazard with 1 penalty stroke.  If you take a chance and drop it in the hazard (maybe because a  drop outside the hazard is much farther away form the green), and it turns out to be a bad lie, oops.  It's another penalty stroke for a total of 2 PS to then drop outside of the hazard.

If on the other hand you play a stroke from the hazard and it goes OB,  there is no risk for dropping it in the hazard to see what kind of lie you get.  Playing from outside the hazard is 2 PS, no matter if you first dropped it in the hazard or not.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks, John. I've yet to get the correct answer to that question ... maybe next time. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

David in FL    1,525
BTW, congratulations for correctly digesting the rule.  The last rules workshop I went to, the instructor joked that getting a 100 on the exam meant, among other things,  having to figure out the correct answer for the obligatory question on Rule 26-2.  Figuring out all the strokes and penalties can be tricky.

The following is more information if anyone is interested.

If you look at 26-2b, if the player played the ball from the hazard and the ball went OB, the player may drop a ball at the spot last played in the hazard.  He gets one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 whether he actually drops there or not.  If he does drop he can then play the stroke or, under a penalty of another stroke, play from outside the hazard under R26.  Whether or not he actually drops a ball at the spot in the hazard is up to him, as well as to whether or not he actually plays it.  If he plays from outside the hazard it's 2 total penalty strokes regardless.

The difference between the two rules is that with R26-2a, Rory's case, he was not required to drop a ball in the same spot under Rule 26, it was only 1of 4 possible choices. He could have just dropped outside the hazard incurring 1 penalty stroke.   If he decides to drop where he last played in the hazard, and it turned out to be a bad choice, he's stuck with a penalty for the drop plus another for the ability to drop outside the hazard. 2 penalty strokes total.  With R26-2b, if he would have hit a ball OB, he has to take the stroke and distance penalty under R27.   If he then chooses to drop outside the hazard, regardless if he dropped the ball inside the hazard or not, he has to add another penalty stroke.

What does all this mean.......if you play a ball from the hazard and you don't get out.  Understand that you can take your lumps and just drop outside the hazard with 1 penalty stroke.  If you take a chance and drop it in the hazard (maybe because a  drop outside the hazard is much farther away form the green), and it turns out to be a bad lie, oops.  It's another penalty stroke for a total of 2 PS to then drop outside of the hazard.

If on the other hand you play a stroke from the hazard and it goes OB,  there is no risk for dropping it in the hazard to see what kind of lie you get.  Playing from outside the hazard is 2 PS, no matter if you first dropped it in the hazard or not.

I hope this makes sense.

I never completely understood the difference between your shot remaining in the hazard, and hitting it OB from the hazard before.  Thanks for a good clarification!

Still a pain in the butt.....another example of taking care not to follow a bad shot with a stupid one!  A rule that sadly, I still break all too often....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Golfingdad    1,850

BTW, congratulations for correctly digesting the rule.  The last rules workshop I went to, the instructor joked that getting a 100 on the exam meant, among other things,  having to figure out the correct answer for the obligatory question on Rule 26-2.  Figuring out all the strokes and penalties can be tricky.

The following is more information if anyone is interested.

If you look at 26-2b, if the player played the ball from the hazard and the ball went OB, the player may drop a ball at the spot last played in the hazard.  He gets one penalty stroke under Rule 27-1 whether he actually drops there or not.  If he does drop he can then play the stroke or, under a penalty of another stroke, play from outside the hazard under R26.  Whether or not he actually drops a ball at the spot in the hazard is up to him, as well as to whether or not he actually plays it.  If he plays from outside the hazard it's 2 total penalty strokes regardless.

The difference between the two rules is that with R26-2a, Rory's case, he was not required to drop a ball in the same spot under Rule 26, it was only 1of 4 possible choices. He could have just dropped outside the hazard incurring 1 penalty stroke.   If he decides to drop where he last played in the hazard, and it turned out to be a bad choice, he's stuck with a penalty for the drop plus another for the ability to drop outside the hazard. 2 penalty strokes total.  With R26-2b, if he would have hit a ball OB, he has to take the stroke and distance penalty under R27.   If he then chooses to drop outside the hazard, regardless if he dropped the ball inside the hazard or not, he has to add another penalty stroke.

What does all this mean.......if you play a ball from the hazard and you don't get out.  Understand that you can take your lumps and just drop outside the hazard with 1 penalty stroke.  If you take a chance and drop it in the hazard (maybe because a  drop outside the hazard is much farther away form the green), and it turns out to be a bad lie, oops.  It's another penalty stroke for a total of 2 PS to then drop outside of the hazard.

If on the other hand you play a stroke from the hazard and it goes OB,  there is no risk for dropping it in the hazard to see what kind of lie you get.  Playing from outside the hazard is 2 PS, no matter if you first dropped it in the hazard or not.

I hope this makes sense.

Thanks!  And that is an interesting little tidbit about the "free" drop for the OB ball.  I really hope I never need to remember these rules while playing.  It means I have probably just done something really dumb! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Dormie1360    63

Thanks!  And that is an interesting little tidbit about the "free" drop for the OB ball.  I really hope I never need to remember these rules while playing.  It means I have probably just done something really dumb! ;)

Let's say the player plays from the hazard and the ball goes OB.  He elects to drop in the hazard.  Before he plays his stroke he kicks his ball.  He then changes his mind, and instead of replacing the ball, he picks up and drops it outside of the hazard.  1PS for the OB, 1PS for dropping outside of the hazard.  Does he get 1PS for kicking his ball?

I believe so, but would appreciate any input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ignorant    7
I would say so. His ball was in play when he dropped it.

Absolutely. The player had no intention to lift his ball prior to kicking it so he moved his ball in play (18-2a).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dormie1360    63

I would say so. His ball was in play when he dropped it.

Absolutely. The player had no intention to lift his ball prior to kicking it so he moved his ball in play (18-2a).

Thanks.  That's what I was thinking, the ball is in play.

As far as intent I was originally thinking that as well but I'm wondering if it could be argued that under this rule the player can drop a ball without intent.  He wanted to see what the lie would be before deciding whether or not to play it. There really is no downside to dropping the ball......I guess as long as you don't kick it. :-)

Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Ignorant    7

Thanks.  That's what I was thinking, the ball is in play.

As far as intent I was originally thinking that as well but I'm wondering if it could be argued that under this rule the player can drop a ball without intent.  He wanted to see what the lie would be before deciding whether or not to play it. There really is no downside to dropping the ball......I guess as long as you don't kick it.

When the player dropped his ball the ball was in play. His intention was to drop it, that means he intended to put the ball in play.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dormie1360    63

When the player dropped his ball the ball was in play. His intention was to drop it, that means he intended to put the ball in play.

I understand....I could have worded that better.  I was commenting on your previous post regarding the player having no intention to lift the ball. The player could  breach 18-2 (move the ball) prior to determining his intent whether to lift or play it.   The player intended to drop the ball (as you say).  This was to see what kind of lie he got , .....the consequences of which is the ball is in play.

I think we are all getting to the same outcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Golfingdad    1,850
I understand....I could have worded that better.  I was commenting on your previous post regarding the player having no intention to lift the ball. The player could  breach 18-2 (move the ball) prior to determining his intent whether to lift or play it.   The player intended to drop the ball (as you say).  This was to see what kind of lie he got , .....the consequences of which is the ball is in play. I think we are all getting to the same outcome.

Ok, so if it's in play when you drop it, at what point does it become out of play. What if the guy kicked it while he was bending down to pick it up and redrop outside the hazard?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Rulesman    166

Ok, so if it's in play when you drop it, at what point does it become out of play. What if the guy kicked it while he was bending down to pick it up and redrop outside the hazard?

It is no different to kicking it when bending down to pick it up to drop in taking relief from an immovable obstruction or casual water.

20-1 applies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dormie1360    63

Ok, so if it's in play when you drop it, at what point does it become out of play. What if the guy kicked it while he was bending down to pick it up and redrop outside the hazard?

The ball is in play until it is lifted......or it's hit OB again :cry:

The rules use a term called "directly attributable" which deals with what you are asking.

20-1 . Lifting and Marking

....... If a ball or ball-marker is accidentally moved in the process of lifting the ball under a Rule or marking its position, the ball or ball-marker must be replaced. There is no penalty, provided the movement of the ball or ball-marker is directly attributable to the specific act o f marking the position of or lifting the ball. Otherwise, the player incurs a penalty of one stroke under this Rule or Rule 18-2a .

24-1 . Movable Obstruction

A player may take relief, without penalty, from a movable obstruction as follows:

a. If the ball does not lie in or on the obstruction , the obstruction may be removed. If the ball moves , it must be replaced, and there is no penalty, provided that the movement of the ball is directly attributable to the removal of the obstruction . Otherwise, Rule 18-2a applies .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Fourputt    922

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Ok, so if it's in play when you drop it, at what point does it become out of play. What if the guy kicked it while he was bending down to pick it up and redrop outside the hazard?

It is no different to kicking it when bending down to pick it up to drop in taking relief from an immovable obstruction or casual water.

20-1 applies.

So, to paraphrase Elmer Fudd, "Be vewy, vewy caweful" when tromping around in a hazard. :smartass:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    Talamore Golf Resort
    PING Golf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Mission Belt
    Snell Golf
    Frogger Golf
    PitchFix USA
  • Posts

    • Not an individual tournament but with a partner(s), sure. Even if it's another low handicapper we can compete if we play well but most likely won't win. I agree with you what you're saying. Most of the club tournaments I play in have a gross division so it's not a big deal. One tournament where I've seen low handicappers have an advantage is a format where teams are divided into flights based on combined handicap. If you win that flight you play against the winners of the other flights in a horserace where strokes are greatly reduced. Most of the horse races I've seen or been a part of of are won by teams from the first two flights, the lower handicap flights.
    • Checked if my shoulders were too flat in a mirror. Apparently not as bad as I thought. I'd like to be more conscious of it before tomorrow's lesson. Going to do a bunch of slow movements through the evening and tomorrow morning then progressively speed up and see if everything still looks reasonable with a full speed swing. . .
    • I've never actually met a golfer who swings differently when under pressure, that is, if he can swing to his handicap at all? Golf starts with a good swing, without that you've got no game.   Yes, but the player is dialing things in at a range. On the course everything is much harder because you only hit any club once per 10 to 15 minutes or something like that.   There's no mental aspect when you have a chance to hit ball after ball successively from the shortest club to the longest one. On the range you're dialed in. That's why many people hit well on the range and not so well on the course.   If you do this with a proper swing, then I'd imagine yes. You'd have a good swing. That good swing in turn will give you more confidence than any sort of motivational speech.   I've never been able to will the ball to go where I want it to, and don't know anyone who can do that without the physical training required to develop a decent swing.
    • This.  Over the years we've heard so much about golf and sports being mental but where are the great tips and instruction on the mental side of the game?  I've read some books on the subject but so far not by anyone who sounded like they actually played golf.  Here's one mental thing that I've done to help my game, imo:   While getting into my address position I look long at my target, glance at the ball to get feet and ball position aligned.  One more good look at the target and when I look back to the ball I begin my swing almost immediately.  This keeps tension from creeping into my muscles by staying too long at address thinking about too many things.  It also seems to help me stay more alert during the swing, rather than getting all tense and just hitting a start/panic button.  To me, this is part of the mental game and is one way the mind can make a huge difference in shot result.
  • TST Blog Entries

  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

    1. CoachB25
      CoachB25
      (60 years old)
    2. Fsgolfer
      Fsgolfer
      (61 years old)
    3. Zach
      Zach
      (27 years old)
  • Get Great Gear with Amazon