Should Divots Be Considered Ground Under Repair?

[Fourputt]

Yes I believe it is ground under repair because when a course puts sod down the grass is growing, same in a divot.

Rule 25 is titled "Abnormal Ground Conditions, Embedded Ball, and Wrong Putting Green."  Ground under repair comes under the heading of abnormal ground.  Divots and divot holes are not abnormal.  You will find them on every real golf course in the world.  Therefore they are as normal as grass or sand on a golf course.  No relief for normal conditions.

[WhiteLightning]

Yeah I get that.

[flopster]

I don't like the rule, but I also know it will never be changed so better learn to hit out of em.

[David in FL]

I don't like the rule, but I also know it will never be changed so better learn to hit out of em.

Which rule? Play the ball as it lies? ;-)

[saevel25]

Divots are part of the course. If a person wants to replace the divot it is up to them. Some courses require them to be sanded and seeded from a dispenser on the cart. Then they are now considered a bunker, so grounding the club. Nah I am joking on that one. The course isn't re-sodding the divots. They re-sod areas that die out or if they do any major work to the course. That is totally different than a 3 inch wide 6 inch long divot.

[flopster]

Which rule? Play the ball as it lies?

Yep that's the one, seriously though I just accept it and move on, the USGA's position is valid since it's not abnormal to see divots in a fairway.

[Rulesman]

Comments from Tom Meeks

At Olympic, Payne Steward also had trouble with sand-filled divots, and on the 12th hole on Sunday I gave him a bad time for slow play. He was upset, and the following spring we met in Orlando to discuss things — sand-filled divots, hole locations, slow-play warnings, everything. Payne suggested to me that sand-filled divots be declared ground under repair. I told him such a local rule wasn't going to happen, and suggested — good-naturedly — that he might practice from sand-filled divots once in a while. Payne looked at the horizon for a while; you could see his mind spinning as he considered it. Finally he looked at me and said, "You're crazy."

After Payne died , Fred Funk told me the PGA Tour had a players meeting soon after Payne and I had met in Orlando. Tim Finchem asked if the players had any issues to discuss before moving on to the main agenda. Greg Norman stood up and said, "I think we should be permitted relief when a ball lands in a sand-filled divot." Before Finchem could answer, Payne jumped out of his chair on the other side of the room. "I disagree!" he said. "I think we should practice those shots." I thought, God bless Payne Stewart.

[WhiteLightning]

Comments from Tom Meeks

At Olympic, Payne Steward also had trouble with sand-filled divots, and on the 12th hole on Sunday I gave him a bad time for slow play. He was upset, and the following spring we met in Orlando to discuss things — sand-filled divots, hole locations, slow-play warnings, everything. Payne suggested to me that sand-filled divots be declared ground under repair. I told him such a local rule wasn't going to happen, and suggested — good-naturedly — that he might practice from sand-filled divots once in a while. Payne looked at the horizon for a while; you could see his mind spinning as he considered it. Finally he looked at me and said, "You're crazy."

After Payne died, Fred Funk told me the PGA Tour had a players meeting soon after Payne and I had met in Orlando. Tim Finchem asked if the players had any issues to discuss before moving on to the main agenda. Greg Norman stood up and said, "I think we should be permitted relief when a ball lands in a sand-filled divot." Before Finchem could answer, Payne jumped out of his chair on the other side of the room. "I disagree!" he said. "I think we should practice those shots." I thought, God bless Payne Stewart.

Yes indeed!! He said a lot of good things, and it means a lot to my dad to have his autograph.

[Foursum Golf]

Comments from Tom Meeks

At Olympic, Payne Steward also had trouble with sand-filled divots, and on the 12th hole on Sunday I gave him a bad time for slow play. He was upset, and the following spring we met in Orlando to discuss things — sand-filled divots, hole locations, slow-play warnings, everything. Payne suggested to me that sand-filled divots be declared ground under repair. I told him such a local rule wasn't going to happen, and suggested — good-naturedly — that he might practice from sand-filled divots once in a while. Payne looked at the horizon for a while; you could see his mind spinning as he considered it. Finally he looked at me and said, "You're crazy."

After Payne died, Fred Funk told me the PGA Tour had a players meeting soon after Payne and I had met in Orlando. Tim Finchem asked if the players had any issues to discuss before moving on to the main agenda. Greg Norman stood up and said, "I think we should be permitted relief when a ball lands in a sand-filled divot." Before Finchem could answer, Payne jumped out of his chair on the other side of the room. "I disagree!" he said. "I think we should practice those shots." I thought, God bless Payne Stewart.

That is a good story.

[Fourputt]

Comments from Tom Meeks

At Olympic, Payne Steward also had trouble with sand-filled divots, and on the 12th hole on Sunday I gave him a bad time for slow play. He was upset, and the following spring we met in Orlando to discuss things — sand-filled divots, hole locations, slow-play warnings, everything. Payne suggested to me that sand-filled divots be declared ground under repair. I told him such a local rule wasn't going to happen, and suggested — good-naturedly — that he might practice from sand-filled divots once in a while. Payne looked at the horizon for a while; you could see his mind spinning as he considered it. Finally he looked at me and said, "You're crazy."

After Payne died, Fred Funk told me the PGA Tour had a players meeting soon after Payne and I had met in Orlando. Tim Finchem asked if the players had any issues to discuss before moving on to the main agenda. Greg Norman stood up and said, "I think we should be permitted relief when a ball lands in a sand-filled divot." Before Finchem could answer, Payne jumped out of his chair on the other side of the room. "I disagree!" he said. "I think we should practice those shots." I thought, God bless Payne Stewart.

Great story about one if my all time favorite players.  A guy who came on Tour as something of a brat, but then remade himself into one of the real gentlemen in the game.  Thanks for this anecdote.

[impactswing]

Rub of the green. In friendly games and small money tourneys its usually clean and place in fairways now. So divots irrelevant unless you are in the rough.

[iacas]

Rub of the green. In friendly games and small money tourneys its usually clean and place in fairways now. So divots irrelevant unless you are in the rough.

Rub of the green is a defined term. It doesn't just mean "bad luck."

I'm sorry to hear about the cheating in your friendly games and tourneys.

[Foursum Golf]

[impactswing]

Rub of the green is a defined term. It doesn't just mean "bad luck." I'm sorry to hear about the cheating in your friendly games and tourneys.

Most mini tours use lift clean place to equalize the courses that sre not tour pristine. So when you have almost 100 mini tour pros putting up almost 1,000 bucks, thats the rule usually. Face it tour pros play the best maintained courses in the world, and the guys trying to become pros are all on mini tours with courses not pristine and they usually lift clean and place. If you are used to pristine coursrs you know the terrible shape most courses are in.

[iacas]

Uhm, no. You've not said very much accurate here or in your other thread. Rules are rules and I'll follow them. If my ball ends up in a bad spot, I play it as it lies. To do anything else is to cheat.

[impactswing]

Uhm, no. You've not said very much accurate here or in your other thread. Rules are rules and I'll follow them. If my ball ends up in a bad spot, I play it as it lies. To do anything else is to cheat.

I play daily, plus a few times a week it's in 20-100 man fields where most of the guys are or were pros. It's lift clean n place short hair. Most of other rounds with pga pros of various levels. LCP is the norm, granted its Sfl where courses are built over swamps, but that's how we all play. So when everyone is doing LCP it's not cheating as some say, its some of the best golfers in Sfl playing on courses that are usually abnormal ground conditions since every drive is either embedded or loaded with mud.

[iacas]

I play daily, plus a few times a week it's in 20-100 man fields where most of the guys are or were pros. It's lift clean n place short hair. Most of other rounds with pga pros of various levels. LCP is the norm, granted its Sfl where courses are built over swamps, but that's how we all play.

Right, so you all cheat. Either that or you're just playing a game resembling golf. Golf has rules, and you choose not to follow them.

We get it already.

[Asheville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Uhm, no. You've not said very much accurate here or in your other thread. Rules are rules and I'll follow them. If my ball ends up in a bad spot, I play it as it lies.

To do anything else is to cheat.

I play daily, plus a few times a week it's in 20-100 man fields where most of the guys are or were pros. It's lift clean n place short hair. Most of other rounds with pga pros of various levels. LCP is the norm, granted its Sfl where courses are built over swamps, but that's how we all play.

So when everyone is doing LCP it's not cheating as some say, its some of the best golfers in Sfl playing on courses that are usually abnormal ground conditions since every drive is either embedded or loaded with mud.

Of course, do what you like.

However, you'll not get much sympathy nor change any minds here, simply because this is a Rules folder not a What Kind of White Belt Do You Wear folder. Most here choose to play by the Rules.