Hole In One?

[jsgolfer]

Friend of mine, very good golfer, previous club champion both Men's and Seniors, been playing golf for close to 50 years, never had a Hole In one in a round.

Plays first 14 holes from the blue Tees, the 15th hole is a 220 yard tough par 3, back up huge hill, guys he's playing with decide to take short walk to red tee, makes it 100 yard shot and makes a Hole in One?  Plays last three holes from blues tees.

Is that a record-able Hole in One?

[flopster]

Recordable in what context? I had to stop 2 times and backspace my post because this is a bit perplexing. If they want to tell the pro shop and have them get the local paper to print it no big deal, if he wants to include that score in a posted round then he has a problem,

[Abu3baid]

I know what I'm about to say won't answer your question.. but....

It's a hold one.. I don't care if it was from 100 yards or 200 yards.. pretty hard to do.. and some luck involved :)

Although.. the definition of luck I go by is when preparation meets opportunity!  So.. ya.. off topic sorry.

[luu5]

Recordable in what context? I had to stop 2 times and backspace my post because this is a bit perplexing. If they want to tell the pro shop and have them get the local paper to print it no big deal, if he wants to include that score in a posted round then he has a problem,

As far as I understand it, he can return the card as long as 13 holes has been played. Needs a bit of mathematics though.

[ColinL]

Yes, an intriguing question.   If you are talking of a social round, why should he  not be delighted that he had a hole in one off the red tee?  Possibly more creditable than my one and only (so far) hole in one, which was in a bounce game and came about as the result of a most embarrassing mishit off the blade which never got more than 10 cms off the ground, pitched halfway to the hole and somehow rolled the rest of the way to the green and into the hole.

But I digress.  In terms of a game played by the Rules, this would not be a hole in one  in stroke play because the player played from the wrong teeing ground which means a 2 stroke penalty and the requirement to play again from the correct teeing ground.  If he does not go back and put the matter right he is disqualified.  For handicapping purposes, is that one of the instances  in the USGA system where you can miss out  a hole and put in an estimated score?   In a Qualifying Round in the UK, it would be recorded for handicapping as a nil return and be counted as a nett double bogey.  If he did go back to the correct teeing ground to play from the right place, he would be playing his 3rd shot.

In match play, he could get away with this being a hole in one, provided his opponent did not require him to replay the stroke from the correct teeing ground.  If he was required to play again, he would just have to hole his tee shot from the correct place to get a hole in one that way, there being no penalty involved.

The reference is Rule 11-4

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Rules-of-Golf/Rule-11/

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopster

Recordable in what context? I had to stop 2 times and backspace my post because this is a bit perplexing. If they want to tell the pro shop and have them get the local paper to print it no big deal, if he wants to include that score in a posted round then he has a problem,

As far as I understand it, he can return the card as long as 13 holes has been played. Needs a bit of mathematics though.

For handicap, I believe that he has to score that hole as unplayed, or as played other than by the rules of golf, which means that he marks par plus any handicap strokes he is entitled to.  He did not play the hole from the teeing ground as the rules require.

[David in FL]

For handicap, I believe that he has to score that hole as unplayed, or as played other than by the rules of golf, which means that he marks par plus any handicap strokes he is entitled to.  He did not play the hole from the teeing ground as the rules require.

This is where I am too.  Sorry....

[jsgolfer]

Yeah I agree with the posting of the score, weird way to get a hole in one after 50 years

[Asheville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luu5

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopster

Recordable in what context? I had to stop 2 times and backspace my post because this is a bit perplexing. If they want to tell the pro shop and have them get the local paper to print it no big deal, if he wants to include that score in a posted round then he has a problem,

As far as I understand it, he can return the card as long as 13 holes has been played. Needs a bit of mathematics though.

For handicap, I believe that he has to score that hole as unplayed, or as played other than by the rules of golf, which means that he marks par plus any handicap strokes he is entitled to.  He did not play the hole from the teeing ground as the rules require.

Rick, I'm not certain that the Rules require play from the same color of tees for all holes. Section 5 of the Handicap Manual has a procedure for posting a score from an unrated set of tees. (I'll say this ... I'm only a Rules guy not a Handicap expert, furthermore I didn't in a Holiday Inn Express last night.)

I'm ready to give the old bloke his hole-in-one.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Quote:

Originally Posted by luu5

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopster

Recordable in what context? I had to stop 2 times and backspace my post because this is a bit perplexing. If they want to tell the pro shop and have them get the local paper to print it no big deal, if he wants to include that score in a posted round then he has a problem,

As far as I understand it, he can return the card as long as 13 holes has been played. Needs a bit of mathematics though.

For handicap, I believe that he has to score that hole as unplayed, or as played other than by the rules of golf, which means that he marks par plus any handicap strokes he is entitled to.  He did not play the hole from the teeing ground as the rules require.

Rick, I'm not certain that the Rules require play from the same color of tees for all holes. Section 5 of the Handicap Manual has a procedure for posting a score from an unrated set of tees. (I'll say this ... I'm only a Rules guy not a Handicap expert, furthermore I didn't in a Holiday Inn Express last night.)

I'm ready to give the old bloke his hole-in-one.

To play under the rules, the player has to play the stipulated round , which includes a specified group of tees.  Even though that is like many of the rules and really only applies to a competition, I don't believe that the player can just mix and match teeing rounds as he sees fit and call it a proper handicap round.  For one thing, unless the course has been rated for a certain mix of tees, there is no rating or slope to apply to the formula when the round is entered in the system.  By just deciding for that one hole to play a different tee, it doesn't qualify for the above exception.

He can call it a hole-in-one, but it has to have an asterisk with it.  However, he did hole out from a teeing ground in one stroke.

[Asheville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Quote:

Originally Posted by luu5

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopster

Recordable in what context? I had to stop 2 times and backspace my post because this is a bit perplexing. If they want to tell the pro shop and have them get the local paper to print it no big deal, if he wants to include that score in a posted round then he has a problem,

As far as I understand it, he can return the card as long as 13 holes has been played. Needs a bit of mathematics though.

For handicap, I believe that he has to score that hole as unplayed, or as played other than by the rules of golf, which means that he marks par plus any handicap strokes he is entitled to.  He did not play the hole from the teeing ground as the rules require.

Rick, I'm not certain that the Rules require play from the same color of tees for all holes. Section 5 of the Handicap Manual has a procedure for posting a score from an unrated set of tees. (I'll say this ... I'm only a Rules guy not a Handicap expert, furthermore I didn't in a Holiday Inn Express last night.)

I'm ready to give the old bloke his hole-in-one.

To play under the rules, the player has to play the stipulated round, which includes a specified group of tees.  Even though that is like many of the rules and really only applies to a competition, I don't believe that the player can just mix and match teeing rounds as he sees fit and call it a proper handicap round.  For one thing, unless the course has been rated for a certain mix of tees, there is no rating or slope to apply to the formula when the round is entered in the system.  By just deciding for that one hole to play a different tee, it doesn't qualify for the above exception.

He can call it a hole-in-one, but it has to have an asterisk with it.  However, he did hole out from a teeing ground in one stroke.

Like I said, I'm no handicap expert, but I believe that Section 5 of the Handicap Manual does permit a player to to mix tees. Take a look.

It was a common practice at a place I used to play for some senior guys to play a mix of middle and forward tees, then adjust rating and slope in accordance with the table in Section 5.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

So far, no asterisk from me!

[Fourputt]

Like I said, I'm no handicap expert, but I believe that Section 5 of the Handicap Manual does permit a player to to mix tees. Take a look.

It was a common practice at a place I used to play for some senior guys to play a mix of middle and forward tees, then adjust rating and slope in accordance with the table in Section 5.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

So far, no asterisk from me!

Still not buying it.  You can't change a stipulated round in the middle just on a whim and expect it to count.  At the very least, it invaldates that hole as not having been played under the principles of the Rules of Golf.

[Asheville]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

Like I said, I'm no handicap expert, but I believe that Section 5 of the Handicap Manual does permit a player to to mix tees. Take a look.

It was a common practice at a place I used to play for some senior guys to play a mix of middle and forward tees, then adjust rating and slope in accordance with the table in Section 5.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

So far, no asterisk from me!

Still not buying it.  You can't change a stipulated round in the middle just on a whim and expect it to count.  At the very least, it invaldates that hole as not having been played under the principles of the Rules of Golf.

Here's a FAQ from the Handicap Section of USGA.org;

Section 5

Posting a Score From an Unrated Set of Tees

Q. How do I post a score from an unrated set of tees on a rated golf course?

A. Example :  A woman plays from the middle tees, which are not rated for women. The USGA Course Rating™ from the forward tees is 71.6 with a Slope Rating® of 119. The middle tees are 396 yards longer than the forward tees. Using the chart in Section 5-2g of " The USGA Handicap System ," she will post her score with a USGA Course Rating of 73.8 (71.6 + 2.2) and a Slope Rating of 124 (119 + 5). Note : The resulting values are subtracted if the unrated tees are shorter than the rated tees. Section 5-2g may also be used if a player plays a combination of tees. First determine the total yardage of the combination tees, then apply the above procedure. This adjustment in USGA Course Rating/Slope Rating is only meant to serve as a temporary adjustment and not as a formal USGA Course Rating/Slope Rating. If necessary, the authorized golf association can provide a permanent rating for these tees according to the appropriate gender. Please visit Section 5-2g of " The USGA Handicap System " for further reference.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asheville

Like I said, I'm no handicap expert, but I believe that Section 5 of the Handicap Manual does permit a player to to mix tees. Take a look.

It was a common practice at a place I used to play for some senior guys to play a mix of middle and forward tees, then adjust rating and slope in accordance with the table in Section 5.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

So far, no asterisk from me!

Still not buying it.  You can't change a stipulated round in the middle just on a whim and expect it to count.  At the very least, it invaldates that hole as not having been played under the principles of the Rules of Golf.

Here's a FAQ from the Handicap Section of USGA.org;

Section 5

Posting a Score From an Unrated Set of Tees

Q.  How do I post a score from an unrated set of tees on a rated golf course?

A.  Example:  A woman plays from the middle tees, which are not rated for women. The USGA Course Rating™ from the forward tees is 71.6 with a Slope Rating® of 119. The middle tees are 396 yards longer than the forward tees. Using the chart in Section 5-2g of "The USGA Handicap System," she will post her score with a USGA Course Rating of 73.8 (71.6 + 2.2) and a Slope Rating of 124 (119 + 5). Note: The resulting values are subtracted if the unrated tees are shorter than the rated tees.

Section 5-2g may also be used if a player plays a combination of tees. First determine the total yardage of the combination tees, then apply the above procedure.

This adjustment in USGA Course Rating/Slope Rating is only meant to serve as a temporary adjustment and not as a formal USGA Course Rating/Slope Rating. If necessary, the authorized golf association can provide a permanent rating for these tees according to the appropriate gender.

Please visit Section 5-2g of "The USGA Handicap System" for further reference.

I thought we were talking about the asterisk on the ace.  You keep jumping around.  No matter how you slice it, he didn't play the planned round.  Would you consider it a legitimate Ace if you decided as you approached the 15th tee that you were going to play a different set if tees which made the hole less than half it's length from the tees you had planned to play?  Why ever bother to play a stipulated round?  Just do it your way and play all of the par 3 holes from the shortest tees.

[flopster]

Like I said, I'm no handicap expert, but I believe that Section 5 of the Handicap Manual does permit a player to to mix tees. Take a look.

It was a common practice at a place I used to play for some senior guys to play a mix of middle and forward tees, then adjust rating and slope in accordance with the table in Section 5.

http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handicap-System-Manual/Rule-05/

So far, no asterisk from me!

That sounds incredibly like our clubs format for older guys, they have the option of using certain forward tees but they also lose 2 strokes from their course handicap if I remember right, this is what our handicap chairman set up and he checked it out first I'm sure of that.

[Dormie1360]

I thought we were talking about the asterisk on the ace.  You keep jumping around.  No matter how you slice it, he didn't play the planned round.  Would you consider it a legitimate Ace if you decided as you approached the 15th tee that you were going to play a different set if tees which made the hole less than half it's length from the tees you had planned to play?  Why ever bother to play a stipulated round?  Just do it your way and play all of the par 3 holes from the shortest tees.

It's late and I kinda skimmed through this but.......First a stipulated round is determined by the committee.  Doesn't have to be the same tees on every hole.  Second, in a casual round the players can decide what tees on what holes.......they are the committee.  Third, I'd have to give  some more thought to this idea of what a stipulated round is in casual play. I guess you're saying if my buddies start the number 1 hole on the blue tees and don't make any other comments on what we are going to do before the round starts, the stipulated round must be from all the blue tees. Fourth, you seem to want to add some added emphasis on the ruling because they played shorter tees.  See highlight above. If the ruling is that the stipulated round must be on the same tees for all the holes, length is irrelevant.

Now this is just me.........but if I were playing a casual round with may buddies, and we got to a par 3 and decided to play a different tee, whether is was shorter or longer tee .............and some one holed out from the tee.....I say nice ace.

And as far as handicaps and posting, Ashville is correct.

Colin......didn't we just have this hole in one discussion somewhere else?

[Dormie1360]

Also, I think we are kind of mixing terms.  "stipulated round" in the context of the OP's question really isn't the issue.  It's whether or not the correct teeing ground was used for the hole being played.

And further more.........if he was playing a match with his buddy, the hole would stand as played, unless the stroke was recalled by his opponent.  So it would be a 1 on the card under the rules.

Now I really have to go to bed.

[ColinL]

Colin......didn't we just have this hole in one discussion somewhere else?

Hi John

I recall a discussion but can't remember where it took place.   Now I can't find it.

I hate growing old.