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Crim

2014 Waste Management Phoenix Open Discussion Thread

36 posts in this topic

Coverage on Golf Channel starts at 2pm CT tomorrow.

Robert Allenby
Stephen Ames
Kiradech Aphibarnrat
Woody Austin
Aaron Baddeley
Sang-Moon Bae
Ricky Barnes
Charlie Beljan
Kris Blanks
Jonas Blixt
Jason Bohn
Steven Bowditch
Keegan Bradley
Jonathan Byrd
Angel Cabrera
Mark Calcavecchia
Roberto Castro
Greg Chalmers
Kevin Chappell
K.J. Choi
Nicolas Colsaerts
Erik Compton
Ben Crane
Ben Curtis
Brian Davis
Brendon de Jonge
Graham DeLaet
James Driscoll
Ken Duke
Harris English
Derek Ernst
Matt Every
Gonzalo Fdez-Castano




Martin Flores
Rickie Fowler
Fred Funk
Tommy Gainey
Robert Garrigus
Brian Gay
Lucas Glover
Retief Goosen
Paul Goydos
Luke Guthrie
Bill Haas
James Hahn
Brian Harman
Padraig Harrington
Dudley Hart
David Hearn
Russell Henley
J.J. Henry
Tim Herron
Justin Hicks
Charley Hoffman
Morgan Hoffmann
J.B. Holmes
Billy Horschel
Charles Howell III
John Huh
Matt Jones
Martin Kaymer
Chris Kirk
Jason Kokrak
Martin Laird
Scott Langley
D.H. Lee




Richard H.Lee
Marc Leishman
Justin Leonard
Spencer Levin
David Lingmerth
David Lynn
Jeff Maggert
Hunter Mahan
John Mallinger
Hideki Matsuyama
William McGirt
George McNeill
John Merrick
Phil Mickelson
Bryce Molder
Ryan Moore
Kevin Na
Joe Ogilvie
Geoff Ogilvy
Jeff Overton
Ryan Palmer
Pat Perez
John Peterson
Carl Pettersson
Scott Piercy
D.A. Points
Ted Potter, Jr.
Ian Poulter
Patrick Reed
John Rollins
Andres Romero
Rory Sabbatini
Webb Simpson




Vijay Singh
Brandt Snedeker
Joey Snyder III
Kevin Stadler
Scott Stallings
Kyle Stanley
Brendan Steele
Kevin Streelman
Chris Stroud
Brian Stuard
Daniel Summerhays
Josh Teater
Michael Thompson
Nicholas Thompson
David Toms
Cameron Tringale
Paul Trittler
Kevin Tway
Bo Van Pelt
Jhonattan Vegas
Scott Verplank
Camilo Villegas
Nick Watney
Bubba Watson
Mike Weir
Lee Westwood
Charlie Wi
Mark Wilson
Gary Woodland
Y.E. Yang

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I love to watch the 16th hole!

BTW @Crim , you need to update your custom user title.  Wasn't the baby was born last fall?

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Do they leave that stadium up year round, or is it removed and rebuilt every year? I know bleachers are removed after tournaments, but that looks a lot different than most bleachers.
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Do they leave that stadium up year round, or is it removed and rebuilt every year? I know bleachers are removed after tournaments, but that looks a lot different than most bleachers.

Pretty sure they take it down every year.  If you look at Google Maps you can see part of the stands either under construction, or deconstruction, and if you zoom in further there is nothing there.  Also, if you put the little yellow man on the street right there, there are no stands.

It does seem like a lot of work to put it up and take it down every year, but it seems like they do.

What they should do is leave it up all year and pump in some random crowd noise for us regular players so we could experience that.

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Bubba put on a show today!! Love it when he's on.

Anyone else think Gary Woodland seems like and absolute d**k? On that short par 4  he chipped it to 3 feet, Bubba still had to chip on and Woodland wouldn't mark his ball even though it was right in Bubba's line. How some people feel and big Phil, I'm starting to feel that way about Woodland. Reminds me of a spoiled jock in high school.

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Bubba put on a show today!! Love it when he's on.

Anyone else think Gary Woodland seems like and absolute d**k? On that short par 4  he chipped it to 3 feet, Bubba still had to chip on and Woodland wouldn't mark his ball even though it was right in Bubba's line. How some people feel and big Phil, I'm starting to feel that way about Woodland. Reminds me of a spoiled jock in high school.

Agreed, Bubba really had a great round.. Oh and I hope Harry E. can sink some putts to get in the mix. Bubba sure likes to play to the crowd, and he loves it when they show support for him.

EDIT: After  reading Golfingdad's post, I'm a fan of Gary's again.

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Anyone else think Gary Woodland seems like and absolute d**k? On that short par 4  he chipped it to 3 feet, Bubba still had to chip on and Woodland wouldn't mark his ball even though it was right in Bubba's line. How some people feel and big Phil, I'm starting to feel that way about Woodland. Reminds me of a spoiled jock in high school.

Nope, you are mistaken.  I have it on right now and replayed it a bunch of times.  Woodland swaps his wedge for his putter with his caddy and then starts to immediately walk towards his ball, takes two steps then clearly veers off to the left.  They immediately cut to Bubba who is already starting his routine.  He didn't "refuse" to mark it, he recognized that Bubba didn't want him to.  His ball being there is actually helping Bubba because it's NOT on his line (his ball misses Woodlands by 16-18" and hits the hole) so if Bubba happens to blade one he could get lucky and be "saved" if it hits Woodlands ball.

Pay enough attention and you will see they do this for each other often.

In fact, if you watched Dubai yesterday, Tiger did this exact thing.  He pitched on while a ball was sitting a couple of feet beside the hole (not Rorys, the other guy whose name is escaping me right now), hit it too hard, and plunked that ball ... leaving himself with a simple 3 footer, instead of an 8-10 footer coming back.

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Nope, you are mistaken.  I have it on right now and replayed it a bunch of times.  Woodland swaps his wedge for his putter with his caddy and then starts to immediately walk towards his ball, takes two steps then clearly veers off to the left.  They immediately cut to Bubba who is already starting his routine.  He didn't "refuse" to mark it, he recognized that Bubba didn't want him to.  His ball being there is actually helping Bubba because it's NOT on his line (his ball misses Woodlands by 16-18" and hits the hole) so if Bubba happens to blade one he could get lucky and be "saved" if it hits Woodlands ball.

Pay enough attention and you will see they do this for each other often.

In fact, if you watched Dubai yesterday, Tiger did this exact thing.  He pitched on while a ball was sitting a couple of feet beside the hole (not Rorys, the other guy whose name is escaping me right now), hit it too hard, and plunked that ball ... leaving himself with a simple 3 footer, instead of an 8-10 footer coming back.

It may be a dumb question, but why would they do this for each other.  Whoever is on the green (say Woodland) and Bubba chips up and hits his ball.  Bubba is now saved but Woodland would now be in a worse position.  While I'm all for sportsmanship and all, but it is still a competition with a lot of money on the line.  Can any one explain?

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It may be a dumb question, but why would they do this for each other.  Whoever is on the green (say Woodland) and Bubba chips up and hits his ball.  Bubba is now saved but Woodland would now be in a worse position.  While I'm all for sportsmanship and all, but it is still a competition with a lot of money on the line.  Can any one explain?

I didn't see the actual footage, but it doesn't really sound like Woodland did it intentionally to help , but rather saw that Bubba was ready to go and just opted not to interrupt him in his routine.  18" off line isn't likely to really help or bother these guys.....

And just as an aside, if that were to happen, Woodland would replace his ball where it had been before being hit.....no harm to him.

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It may be a dumb question, but why would they do this for each other.  Whoever is on the green (say Woodland) and Bubba chips up and hits his ball.  Bubba is now saved but Woodland would now be in a worse position.  While I'm all for sportsmanship and all, but it is still a competition with a lot of money on the line.  Can any one explain?

In that scenario, Woodland HAS TO/ MUST replace his ball back to its original position if Bubbas ball moved it. So in a sense, he can't really lose. And Bubba can't lose (as long as he hasn't mis read his line etc) He/Woodland would incur a 2 shot penalty if he didn't replace his ball. So that's the only potential downside in the above scenario. FYI, The other part of this rule concerns the scenario where both balls are on the green. So Woodland has chipped on BUT Bubba has a long putt on the green. In this instance, Bubba would receive a 2 stroke penalty if he hit Woodlands ball. That's why you'll always see balls being marked when both are on the green.

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FWIW I hate that "unwritten rule." Players should be marking their balls if they think it could assist another player. But there's this "if you scratch my back I'll scratch yours" bit on Tour that seems to go against the principles just a bit.

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whats wrong with backscratching

IMO it goes against the principles. Tiger's ball should have been 8-10 feet away, not in basically gimme range. The result of his shot was altered because a player knowingly aided his play by leaving his ball. Thus that player (Gallacher or whatever, I think) failed to protect the field.

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IMO it goes against the principles. Tiger's ball should have been 8-10 feet away, not in basically gimme range. The result of his shot was altered because a player knowingly aided his play by leaving his ball. Thus that player (Gallacher or whatever, I think) failed to protect the field.

That's exactly what I was going to say.  They harp on the "protecting the field" aspect of everything, but this unwritten rule solely protects your fellow competitor to the detriment of the field.

But, overall, it doesn't really bother me that much because:

A)  They all do it, which means that it evens itself out over time.  If none of them care, then I'm not going to get too worked up over it.

B)  It almost never actually affects anything.  Tiger's ball hitting Gallachers (thank you, that was the guy) ball on Thursday was the first time I've ever actually seen it "work" in this way.

C)  It is always done under the guise of speeding up play, so I don't know exactly how they'd enforce it.  Bubba'd be like "What, I'm just trying to keep everything moving and you guys are always talking about us playing too slow, now you want me to slow down??"

But I definitely agree that it seems to stand out a bit and go against the overall philosophy.

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I'm not exactly sure on my thoughts on it myself. In one sense it seems to go against things and "the field" is at a disadvantage. But on the other hand, if "the field" are playing the same way then it is equitable for all. The advantage a front running/ star player gains will always get more coverage but it could have benefitted 10 other guys down the field too. And another 10 the following week. To flip it around a bit: marking any ball goes against the principle of "playing it as it lies"
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The advantage a front running/ star player gains will always get more coverage but it could have benefitted 10 other guys down the field too. And another 10 the following week.

Here's my guess:

Somebody who's in the hunt on Sunday has his ball stopped from scurrying through the green on a poor chip in a situation like this, is able to save an easy par, and go on to win by a shot or two AND it is being announced by somebody like the guy yesterday (apologies, I forget his name - I'm doing that a lot lately) who was quite adamant that he didn't like the practice.

If that happens then we probably see this thing get addressed and somehow enforced, but until then, they'll just go on doing it the way they do it, scratching backs.

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In fact, if you watched Dubai yesterday, Tiger did this exact thing.  He pitched on while a ball was sitting a couple of feet beside the hole (not Rorys, the other guy whose name is escaping me right now), hit it too hard, and plunked that ball ... leaving himself with a simple 3 footer, instead of an 8-10 footer coming back.

Actually if you were talking about the pitch on the very first day that hit the ball near the hole, I'm almost positive that was Rory's ball, not Gallachers.

Either way I think they should be marking their ball.

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