Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham

[boogielicious]

More fun stuff!

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/things-i-learned-at-the-creation-museum

[geauxforbroke]

A little surprising to see Ham [URL=http://www.salon.com/2014/02/05/pat_robertson_begs_ken_ham_to_shut_up/]drawing criticism from Pat Robertson[/URL]. I didn't know they have had disagreements on this before. Goes to show you that Ham's position is not indicative of all Christians.

[cipher]

  geauxforbroke said:

A little surprising to see Ham drawing criticism from Pat Robertson. I didn't know they have had disagreements on this before. Goes to show you that Ham's position is not indicative of all Christians.

Wow, that is extremely surprising.  Good find.

[saevel25]

  geauxforbroke said:

A little surprising to see Ham drawing criticism from Pat Robertson. I didn't know they have had disagreements on this before. Goes to show you that Ham's position is not indicative of all Christians.

Of course its not indicative of all Christians. He just makes himself as to be the zealot on this issue and claims it to be a Christian issue or nothing. How many times did he say the word Secular in that debate. He's almost venturing into the realm of there is a conspiracy against his ideology.

[Lihu]

  geauxforbroke said:

A little surprising to see Ham drawing criticism from Pat Robertson. I didn't know they have had disagreements on this before. Goes to show you that Ham's position is not indicative of all Christians.

Good.

[Golfingdad]

  geauxforbroke said:

A little surprising to see Ham drawing criticism from Pat Robertson. I didn't know they have had disagreements on this before. Goes to show you that Ham's position is not indicative of all Christians.

Yikes.  If the guy who claims, among other things, that gayness brings earthquakes, femisism creates lesbians, and haiti made a deal with the devil, calls you a crackpot, then, well ... its pretty much a closed case, I'd say.

[cipher]

  Golfingdad said:

Yikes.  If the guy who claims, among other things, that gayness brings earthquakes, femisism creates lesbians, and haiti made a deal with the devil, calls you a crackpot, then, well ... its pretty much a closed case, I'd say.

LOL.

[phan52]

  cipher said:

I will end with this.  Again the question is not a biblical one at all for me as a creationist.  And saying one has evidence while one does not is crap and is being closed minded.  Too many on both sides only look at the evidence that fits their theory.  There is evidence to both and they both take a leap of faith, end of story.  As stated I really don't want to get into this divisive topic any further where usually someones intelligence ends up being insulted, and where people post stupid pictures that say "evidence".  Have fun guys.

I will assume this was directed toward me for the picture I posted. Sorry dude, but it is not stupid. Nye is a scientist and if you show him evidence you can change his mind. There is nothing you can show Ham that will change his mind and I will posit that anybody who believes in the young-earth theory is, maybe not stupid, but pretty ignorant. There is plenty of scientific evidence out there that proves "young-earth" as a fairy tale.

Creationism is not the same thing as "young earth". Creationism and evolution can co-exist. But creationism is not a scientific theory based on any scientific study, it is 100% faith based. Nothing wrong with that.

[cipher]

  phan52 said:

I will assume this was directed toward me for the picture I posted. Sorry dude, but it is not stupid. Nye is a scientist and if you show him evidence you can change his mind. There is nothing you can show Ham that will change his mind and I will posit that anybody who believes in the young-earth theory is, maybe not stupid, but pretty ignorant. There is plenty of scientific evidence out there that proves "young-earth" as a fairy tale.

Creationism is not the same thing as "young earth". Creationism and evolution can co-exist. But creationism is not a scientific theory based on any scientific study, it is 100% faith based. Nothing wrong with that.

Other than the 100% I agree 100%...dude.

[Lihu]

This is surprising:

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/02/27/creation-museum-founder-says-fundraising-after-bill-nye-debate-helps-resurrect/

http://arkencounter.com/

Apparently the debate sparked an interest in the full sized Ark project. Ken's descriptions sounded too cool to pass up.

[Golfingdad]

  Lihu said:

This is surprising: [URL=http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/02/27/creation-museum-founder-says-fundraising-after-bill-nye-debate-helps-resurrect/]http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/02/27/creation-museum-founder-says-fundraising-after-bill-nye-debate-helps-resurrect/[/URL] [URL=http://arkencounter.com/]http://arkencounter.com/[/URL] Apparently the debate sparked an interest in the full sized Ark project. Ken's descriptions sounded too cool to pass up.

That's awesome! I'm not planning on visiting Kentucky anytime soon, but whenever (if) I ever do, I'm going to this. :)

[Lihu]

  Golfingdad said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

This is surprising:

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2014/02/27/creation-museum-founder-says-fundraising-after-bill-nye-debate-helps-resurrect/

http://arkencounter.com/

Apparently the debate sparked an interest in the full sized Ark project. Ken's descriptions sounded too cool to pass up.

That's awesome! I'm not planning on visiting Kentucky anytime soon, but whenever (if) I ever do, I'm going to this. :)

They need to prove that it can float too! I wonder if they are going to put it in a large pool?

[Slice of Life]

  Lihu said:

They need to prove that it can float too! I wonder if they are going to put it in a large pool?

It also has to be built by only a small handful of people...and they all need to have no boat building experience. No power tools or modern equipment either...

[Lihu]

  Slice of Life said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

They need to prove that it can float too! I wonder if they are going to put it in a large pool?

It also has to be built by only a small handful of people...and they all need to have no boat building experience. No power tools or modern equipment either...

That would be quite an Engineering feat.

Seriously though, with 73 million dollars in donations, my guess is it would stimulate the Kentucky economy with more than just a handful of jobs.

[Slice of Life]

  Lihu said:

That would be quite an Engineering feat.

Seriously though, with 73 million dollars in donations, my guess is it would stimulate the Kentucky economy with more than just a handful of jobs.

It wouldn't happen...which was Bill Nye's point in the first place.

Sure, 73 million dollars, power tools, modern resources, and highly skilled engineers and craftsmen can design and build the boat...but that was never really in question...

[Golfingdad]

  Slice of Life said:

It wouldn't happen...which was Bill Nye's point in the first place.

I don't see why it couldn't.  I mean, if they can make this thing float ...

P.S.  It looks like its just going to be an attraction at a theme park ... I don't think it necessarily has to float anyway.

[Lihu]

  Slice of Life said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

That would be quite an Engineering feat.

Seriously though, with 73 million dollars in donations, my guess is it would stimulate the Kentucky economy with more than just a handful of jobs.

It wouldn't happen...which was Bill Nye's point in the first place.

Sure, 73 million dollars, power tools, modern resources, and highly skilled engineers and craftsmen can design and build the boat...but that was never really in question...

Here are some hypothetical possibilities:

If a person, like Noah, could have spent about 120 years building this boat, who knows if it was possible or not? What if "Noah" was a scholarly society?

1. There are a lot of logistics about taking this long to build a boat this large. One of them is worrying about the wood rotting on the completed portions. I don't know too much about gopher wood. Presumably, he could have scouted out the rain forests to look for exotic woods for the frame and the hull.
2. He probably had bronze for saws and drills. He could have used it for the pins to hold the wood together. A Bronze drill bit would be able to drill through mahogany or ironwood if you sharpen it often enough.
3. He could have used copper plating for the bottom to seal it from the dirt and the bacteria that would eat away at the hull during construction.
4. Bronze and iron were most likely available for parts of the frame to hold the wood together like strong ties are used for houses now. Iron would need to be kept oiled and dry.
5. They might have even had some casting/forging capabilities. ~10,000 years ago people of the bronze age were casting primitive spear heads and hammers.

It would take a lot of innovation at the time to make all this happen, and is remotely possible. For example, Leonardo Da Vinci created many inventions in his short 67 year life, and it's possible that Noah could have been just as clever (or more so) and even built primitive steam engines for cranes and hydraulic presses to bend the wood into the hull.

The inventions could have been immediately lost after the death of Noah. People burned books and innovations all throughout history, so it's possible that there was some serious technology developed then lost.

Who really knows? If we make the assumption that someone (or a society) could live 1000 years, a lot of things could happen.

Just image if a group of good engineers were thrust on an island and given all basic needs and any raw material they desired. Could they build an Ark like object in 120 years? I think they could build modern city and fly off the island sooner than that.

Hypothetically, of course.

[Slice of Life]

  Golfingdad said:

I don't see why it couldn't.  I mean, if they can make this thing float ...

P.S.  It looks like its just going to be an attraction at a theme park ... I don't think it necessarily has to float anyway.

You missed my point. That boat was designed by professional engineers with modern technology and many, many skilled craftsmen. Not 8 uneducated people 5,000 years ago.