2014 FIFA World Cup Thread

[FarawayFairways]

It would have to be at the referees discretion Abu to start with, but I reckon it would be stamped out within a month, and under the circumstances I'd regard that as a price worth paying

We had a situation a couple of years ago concerning a very petulent Chelsea player called Ashley Cole who was giving a referee a terrible time. Chelsea's captain (and self styled 'hard man') John Terry (an equally obnoxious person) was on a yellow at the time. Had Cole been booked and the opposition manager nominated Terry to receive the punishment!!!  Well lets just say I wouldn't like to have been Ashley Cole and his broken nose at half time!!!, but one thing I do believe, he wouldn't do it again.

[FarawayFairways]

Maybe another variation where the team still gets the penalty, but it makes that person have to sit out 10 minutes like a hockey penalty box..

They do this in rugby too, but there are issues emerging that would make me think it wouldn't work in football

In the first case, the nature of hockey (thats ice hockey I assume?) and rugby, is that the extra man is a meaningful advantage capable of being converted into points under normal circumstances due to the numbers in hockey, and the dynamics of the game in rugby. In this regard I think you're observing the fundamentals of needing to issue a punitive sanction that actually penalises. There is a suspicion however that referees let offences go and settle for the 10 minute cop out.

My bigger concerns about applying it to football is that teams often play with 10 men to no great detriment, (we routinely see them go down injured etc as well as being sent off) althouigh its difficult to argue that a team is enhanced for having a man less I conceed. I fear that what a 10 minute break would incentivise more than anything though is time wasting and actually damage the flow of the game.

My gut feeling is that there's a better way

[FarawayFairways]

The Unites States really needs to get a great football team, and we have the talent. Unfortunately much of the athletic talent we have goes to American football. Unfortunately, American football will never really gain popularity in other countries, because it is just too complicated. It is hard to follow players and understand what they are doing at any time. First of all, you can't see their faces.

Football is much easier to follow because the rules are relatively simple, and when someone gets a card, it's usually pretty obvious.

If the American football fans disagree with what I am saying, I would challenge them to watch British Cricket match for 6 hours and try to figure out what is going on. This is the feeling any newcomer to football gets. The only reason why I attended football games is for the food, I eventually learned many of the rules through food assimilation. Same with Cricket.

As I've said before, I believe the US will win a World Cup before the much prophecised (and seemingly delayed) African breakthrough, but that doesn't mean that they're going to win of course.

There are a number of issues Lihu, but fundamentally I believe you're right, but I think it's worth recapping some of the advantages first, before I tell you how American can win the World Cup!!!

1: Population 320 million, bigger than anything in Europe (Germany 80m)

2: Rich (if it chooses to spend)

3: Advanced sports science industry

4: Established and well resourced university structure

5: Capable of setting up a functioning and non-corrupt governing body to oversee development (the corruption angle would almost make it unique in world football!)

The downside of losing players to other sports is more acute in America than most countries, but how many do you really lose to the NFL? Football is a cardio vascular game. 100% of your lumps of linemen wouldn't last 2 minutes on a football pitch. Look at some of them! Outside of sumo wrestling and Roman gladiators, I can't think of many sports people who actually carry fat on their stomachs. Similarly, even your poster quarterbacks stand about 6ft 4in and weigh far too much to be a footballer. They simply aren't fast enough, and they too would dramatically need to improve their fitness (which could be done of course) - but they're nowhere near conditioned enough to play 90 mins of football. A footballer will cover between 12-15 miles in a match, a running back is considered have had a good game if he manages 100yds. I suspect that all you're losing in reality though are a few receivers, safety's and some special teams. By the time your American footballers leave college they've got such over developed upper bodies (those who you might pass as athletes rather than linemen) and they'd spend a phenomenally large amount of time injured as football places a lot of stress loading on your knees. It'll be difficult for anyone cut from a roster to retrain as a footballer. The damage will have been done by then

On a population of 320 million, plus a ready supply of Mexicans, you should be able to source players though

The bigger drawback is the lack of a competive league. Don't worry, I can solve that for you too. Don't send your players to play in Europe individually (and especially not England where all they'll learn is how to chase, huff and puff, and then get caned in nightclubs). Go and buy a Dutch second division club and bring them over as a unit. Holland has always had some of the best technical coaches on the continent, and the game is played with a much greater emphasis on the skills there than most other countries. They'll learn a lot in Holland though, and more importantly, they'll learn to grow up as men for being away from home, and develop together as a team. Dutch lower league football is cheap and the American FA could pick up a ready made European club that's borderline bankrupt and playing in a technical league for next to nothing. You'd effectively use the Dutch league as your own academy. Any good players could then be sold into Europe's premier leagues to finance the whole thing. The English FA have been trying to build their own academy for decades now which has hit one problem after another. I did hear a rumour that it might have opened last year, but no one has noticed by now. Why the hell they never invoked European free trade legislation to buy a Dutch club I don't know. Their graduates would be playing competitive football every weekend instead of dribbling around traffic cones!

Whilst contemplating the wisdom of my 90/1 investment (45/1 to reach the final today) I did wonder on whether the absence of a world class indvidual player was damaging America, and could be the missing piece in the jigsaw. I couldn't decide.  I also wondered if the emergence of a special indvidual was just about the last thing the American team needed though. I think in the end I came down on the side of the latter argument

[nevets88]

@FarawayFairways Can you talk about concussions and headers, how the training systems in Europe and Soutb America deal with it? It's an issue in the youth leagues in the US now. There's talk of no headers for under 10 or 14 I forget the age.

[Lihu]

@FarawayFairways

Can you talk about concussions and headers, how the training systems in Europe and Soutb America deal with it? It's an issue in the youth leagues in the US now. There's talk of no headers for under 10 or 14 I forget the age.

When kids are young they should play another game similar to "Futbol del Sala".

More working of the ball, and less opportunity for "heading".

[FarawayFairways]

I couldn't tell you much about South America, but it's become a bit of an issue in the wake of the premature death of Jeff Astle (who was actually involved in that goal I alluded to earlier that bloody Ray Tinkler ..... let it go ... let it go)

I haven't read that much on it, other than being aware that Astle's daughter is leading a campaign and produced a report 2 weeks ago with supporting academic research that has drawn attention to the damage that repeated heading is causing

I'm actually sympathetic to the stance that America might be taking in this instance. I don't think we know enough about it, but I don't see why it shouldn't be the case. Cricket went through this about 20 years ago now where wearing helmets for young players was made mandatory as being hit on the head by a cricket ball at 75mph isn't much fun (unlike baseball you can legitimately aim to hit a batsman's head under certain conditions). Amateur boxing wear headguards of course, and rigby players are increasingly making use of scrum caps again (padded material)

My fear however is that if America is seen to be tampering with some of the very fabric of the game it'll set you back, and only reinforce the view that America can't be trusted with anything football. America is probably in a very difficult positon here. I suspect there's an emerging body evidence that will increasingly come to support the view, and I equally think that with the passage of time you'll be vindicated. I don't think you'd be completely isolated incidentally either as there is a growing awareness and concern, but if America wishes to raise this issue it's going need allies in the politics of football, and you're most likely to find these in Europe. I can just see the headlines though;

"America tries to ban footballers heading"

Personally I'm of the view that at that age you should be concentrating on football skills anyway, and quite possibly playing 5 aside with tennis balls! No seriously.  Oh I'll tell you the story

European urban policy makers send trips over to inner city America to look at how we design communities in deprived neighbourhoods. The consequence is we have basketball courts dotted all over these tenamented estates of Portugal, Spain and southern France. Problem being, we aren't basketball countries. Instead they get used as 5 aside football courts with kids having to make use of a tennis ball, or something undersized. The skills they develop as a result are phenomenal. It's a bit like a snooker player being asked to shoot pool

[FarawayFairways]

Our posts crossed over Lihu, but I'd agree with you 99%

There's no harm in introducing them to the knowledge of heading, how to jump, how to time a header, and the different types of header you can execute. There's no harm in throwing them some gentle ones, or encouraging them to use their heads in 'keepy uppy' skills exercises, but I too would the emphasis on the words  'foot' and 'ball'

[jamo]

When kids are young they should play another game similar to "Futbol del Sala". More working of the ball, and less opportunity for "heading". [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/100596/] [/URL] [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/100597/] [/URL]

Futsal. There are a few domes around here that have leagues.

[FarawayFairways]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-26728439

[late347]

GOOD JOB CHILE !!!

chile vs brazil

1-1 situation there after first half.

[Chilli Dipper]

This is a fine day for the best tournament in the world: it's the 2015 Copa America preview doubleheader!

[late347]

what a nailbiter brazil-chile match

anyone could win the game still...

[Golfingdad]

what a nailbiter brazil-chile match anyone could win the game still...

After that crossbar, at this point I think I'd go so far as to say Chile deserve to win this one.

[late347]

After that crossbar, at this point I think I'd go so far as to say Chile deserve to win this one.

agree it was amazing shot.

now it will be penalty shoot competition.

[Golfingdad]

agree it was amazing shot. now it will be penalty shoot competition.

These are always dramatic but it's still an unfortunate (but unavoidable) way to finish a game. Brazil goalie is very emotional BEFORE this shoot out even starts.

[late347]

These are always dramatic but it's still an unfortunate (but unavoidable) way to finish a game.

Brazil goalie is very emotional BEFORE this shoot out even starts.

my heart goes out to Chile ! They have same flag as TEXAS for God's sake!

[Chilli Dipper]

Brazil escapes, and a nation avoids 64 years of being haunted by the spirit of the Mineirazo. Will this match be a wake-up call for the hosts, or an omen for things to come?

[Golfingdad]

my heart goes out to Chile ! They have same flag as TEXAS for God's sake! :-D

Yeah ... You just don't want anybody to lose like that. I don't mind guys getting shots blocked but I hate seeing them miss the net. I would never be able to fathom the pressure on those guys in that situation.