Ping I 25's or..????

[Lihu]

The wider soles can actually help more through rough, kind of like added bounce, helps the club "glide". G25's are very similar to the G20's, just slightly thinner topline. I've actually played a few rounds with them last year, pretty good results.

Interesting, could it depend upon how deep is the rough?

[Hardballs]

Well i'm not a Ping fan at all. I get sick just by looking at an iron. ( woods are ok tho ) I currently play Mizuno MP 59. this is my second set off irons from mizuno. I can honestly say there is not a better iron than a mizuno iron. I'm about to trade them for the more forgiving JPX EZ Forged maybe this is a good pick for you also.

Stop the press!! We have just found the worlds greatest iron!

[dbrock504]

Great, Greg! That's why I had added the fact that being a good ball striker is more important that your hcp. Good luck in finding whatever clubs you prefer. As long as it makes you enjoy the game more; it's all that matters!

[mvmac]

Interesting, could it depend upon how deep is the rough?

If the rough is deeper, a thinner sole isn't going to make it any easier.

[Lihu]

If the rough is deeper, a thinner sole isn't going to make it any easier.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but I would think that a thin sole has less material to touch the grass so conceptually it would not "pre-push" as much grass into the ball before the club face gets to the ball?

Is the only advantage of a thin sole that you can open up the face easier?

[Hammer 4]

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but I would think that a thin sole has less material to touch the grass so conceptually it would not "pre-push" as much grass into the ball before the club face gets to the ball?

Is the only advantage of a thin sole that you can open up the face easier?

I think that the G 25 with it wider sole, also has more bounce, which allows the club to Glide through the rough better..no ?

[dbrock504]

No sir. The advantage to having a thinner sole is an increased feel and contact allowing for more workability. The reason for a more rounded GI club is to weed out that ability to chuck/thin shots so often. However, it comes at a cost, workability. I can't shape my Callaway X Hot at all in comparison to my friends Callaway X Forged blades. Some people really like the feedback a thinner sole can provide. Me? I just want to play a good round. It really all lies in your personal preference. I'm sure there is a lot more to the "sole" conversation, that is just what I was told and experienced. Also to your rough reference: Think of it this way as well. Most clubs with a sharper sole are thinner, thus being lighter head. A club with a fatter sole will have more weight to its head allowing it to get through that rough better and not get as "caught up". That would be my redneck thought process haha

[mvmac]

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong, but I would think that a thin sole has less material to touch the grass so conceptually it would not "pre-push" as much grass into the ball before the club face gets to the ball?

Is the only advantage of a thin sole that you can open up the face easier?

Yeah but think of the design of the sole. Kind of the same reason hybrids are easy to hit out of the rough. Wider sole effectively adds bounce and can lower the CoG.

You can aim the face right with a G25 the same as you can with an S55. I don't think there is any "advantage" to a thinner sole, just different playing characteristics. Wider sole will generally launch higher, so for guys that want to have the ability to hit their clubs different trajectories, going with a G25 type sole isn't the best option.

A blade/thinner sole will tend to give you more feedback, you'll know when you mis hit it. GI irons can "mute" the feedback.

No sir. The advantage to having a thinner sole is an increased feel and contact allowing for more workability. The reason for a more rounded GI club is to weed out that ability to chuck/thin shots so often. However, it comes at a cost, workability. I can't shape my Callaway X Hot at all in comparison to my friends Callaway X Forged blades.

Yes the wider sole can help with forgiveness, on thin or slightly far shots. Both clubs can be workable, if I hit a game improvement iron and a muscle back in the center with a face right 2 degrees, path 4 degrees right, both shots will push draw. All the ball cares about at impact is club head mass (can easily be the same on a GI iron and a blade), the direction of the center of mass, the location of the center of mass, and the angle of the face.

Where GI irons differ is in getting the ball up in the air, and on helping to reduce the error caused by mishits due to their higher MOI. But nobody good "works the ball" by mishitting the ball (hitting it off the sweet spot).

So it's kind of a myth that that GI irons are "harder" to work but it is true that GI irons are much easier to get the ball UP in the air because the CoG is lower and tough or more resistant to hitting the ball low.

[Jakester23]

Yeah but think of the design of the sole. Kind of the same reason hybrids are easy to hit out of the rough. Wider sole effectively adds bounce and can lower the CoG.

You can aim the face right with a G25 the same as you can with an S55. I don't think there is any "advantage" to a thinner sole, just different playing characteristics. Wider sole will generally launch higher, so for guys that want to have the ability to hit their clubs different trajectories, going with a G25 type sole isn't the best option.

A blade/thinner sole will tend to give you more feedback, you'll know when you mis hit it. GI irons can "mute" the feedback.

Yes the wider sole can help with forgiveness, on thin or slightly far shots. Both clubs can be workable, if I hit a game improvement iron and a muscle back in the center with a face right 2 degrees, path 4 degrees right, both shots will push draw. All the ball cares about at impact is club head mass (can easily be the same on a GI iron and a blade), the direction of the center of mass, the location of the center of mass, and the angle of the face.

Where GI irons differ is in getting the ball up in the air, and on helping to reduce the error caused by mishits due to their higher MOI. But nobody good "works the ball" by mishitting the ball (hitting it off the sweet spot).

So it's kind of a myth that that GI irons are "harder" to work but it is true that GI irons are much easier to get the ball UP in the air because the CoG is lower and tough or more resistant to hitting the ball low.

So basically besides look the only difference between the G25's and i25's as far as workability goes is that the G25's would be harder to hit low?  Obviously the i25's have a smaller head and the lofts are a little different but shaping them left and right should be the same?

[mvmac]

So basically besides look the only difference between the G25's and i25's as far as workability goes is that the G25's would be harder to hit low?

Yep, It's more to do with the trajectory of a shot. Though there is a subtle effect to the shaping ability due to the higher launch.

Changes to the spin loft can subtly change the amount the spin axis will tilt with a GI over a non-GI iron. It's subtle, but it's there - the GI's lower CG helps effectively raise the "delivered loft" thus widening the spin loft and reducing tilt.

Edit: Thanks to Erik for the info, taken from some of his earlier posts.

Obviously the i25's have a smaller head and the lofts are a little different but shaping them left and right should be the same?

On center strikes, yes for the most part (see above), on off center hits, the G25's will curve less.

[Lihu]

Yeah but think of the design of the sole. Kind of the same reason hybrids are easy to hit out of the rough. Wider sole effectively adds bounce and can lower the CoG.

You can aim the face right with a G25 the same as you can with an S55. I don't think there is any "advantage" to a thinner sole, just different playing characteristics. Wider sole will generally launch higher, so for guys that want to have the ability to hit their clubs different trajectories, going with a G25 type sole isn't the best option.

A blade/thinner sole will tend to give you more feedback, you'll know when you mis hit it. GI irons can "mute" the feedback.

Okay, starting to get it. So, the bounce on a wider sole will help you get the club into the air more because it creates a wider compression zone between the club and the ground and generates an upward force so your club "bounces" out of the turf?

I guess my MP52 are considered "diggers" because they don't bounce up much and end up cutting a deeper divot? This explains the "feeling" of freedom I get from these clubs. There is a lot less bounce in the 9i(1/2.5) and 8i (1/3) than the i20 irons I had given to my son. http://www.ping.com/clubs/ironsdetail.aspx?id=11382 versus http://thesandtrap.com/b/clubs/mizuno_mp-52_irons_review

No wonder it's harder for me to get the ball up in the air, now. I spent 3 weeks destroying my swing and one lesson to correct it just to get more height on my new clubs. Arrrgh. Next time I know how important the "bounce" specification is before buying random used clubs again. Not to mention that the shafts are lower launching DG-S300. Double Arrrgh.

Even my MP32 (blade irons) have more bounce than the MP52 (20% more), no wonder why I was hitting the MP52 lower than all my other clubs and digging grand canyon sized divots on the practice range.

Lucky for me Mike and Dana led me on the path to fix it, and I look forward to using these MP52 till I can get some i25 or G25 on sale.

[dbrock504]

You're getting it! However, I think another issue that is overlooked is the offset. I don't know the difference in offset between the G and I series, but I know most GI clubs offer a decent amount of offset to also help ball flight get up there to hold more greens. I'm pretty sure the "better player" designed irons have little offset. I assume the G25 have a noticeable amount of offset in comparison to the i25's.

[Racerx63]

I have the i20's and the offset is progressive. Very little offset in the PW/9i and the offset gets progressively larger into the longer irons. I really like the way they are set up. Certainly makes the longer irons easier to hit.

BTW I love the i20's. From what I have read and seen there is not much difference between the I20 and i25.

[Lihu]

I have the i20's and the offset is progressive. Very little offset in the PW/9i and the offset gets progressively larger into the longer irons. I really like the way they are set up. Certainly makes the longer irons easier to hit.

BTW I love the i20's. From what I have read and seen there is not much difference between the I20 and i25.

I agree, and really like the Ping i20's on the course too!

The i25 feel the same.

[Jakester23]

So if I wanted to get a set of i25's and wanted to get them heavier than standard what would they change? Do they just add weights to the standard shafts or would it be better to just get them with a heavier shaft?

[cipher]

So if I wanted to get a set of i25's and wanted to get them heavier than standard what would they change? Do they just add weights to the standard shafts or would it be better to just get them with a heavier shaft?

There is only an additional charge for aftermarket shafts. They don't charge for making the heads lighter or heavier with the ports.

[mvmac]

So if I wanted to get a set of i25's and wanted to get them heavier than standard what would they change? Do they just add weights to the standard shafts or would it be better to just get them with a heavier shaft?

The swing weight heavier or the shaft? How much heavier?

No they don't charge for swing weight, just specify what you want when you order them. For the shaft, price would depends on what shaft, don't think they would charge you more for Dynamic Gold.

[Jakester23]

I would just like the clubs to be a little heavier than my G15's. From what I've read the standard shafts would be good for me. So I guess swing weight.