My Swing (Vinsk)

[boogielicious]

11 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Anyone? I seem to be able to make this bs when I’m just practicing without hitting a ball. However as soon as I go to hit the bs becomes flat and miserable again. WTF is the matter with me?

 

 

You need to keep working on it. A change like this can take time. Keep working Simple, Slow Specific and keep filming to see if it is changing. You are mapping the swing in the video above, but your final swing was pretty fast. Slow that down too. It is hard to slow down, believe me, I know. But you will get the hang of it. It took me 6 months to get less steep at A6.

When you film your "change the picture' swing, do it as a normal swing. But also film your slow swing practice to see if you are getting it right. Then slowly speed up to a full swing. 

 

[Vinsk]

4 hours ago, Carl3 said:

I am glad you have a sense of humor. I was a little hesitant pushing the submit button. My wife claims she wouldn't mind living in Florida year round, but I am not sure I could handle the heat. She says the coastal breezes would make it OK. Heading there in November for a couple weeks. The courses I usually play are closed. One permanently and one temporarily. Will probably try a Donald Ross course in Dunedin.

Hey it was pretty damn funny and provided some diversion from the montrosity I call a swing. I tell ua what ....I’ve lived in both extremes: hot and cold....I’ll take hot any day over bone chilling, traffic hazards, darkness and death all around weather. 

[Vinsk]

5 hours ago, boogielicious said:

You need to keep working on it. A change like this can take time. Keep working Simple, Slow Specific and keep filming to see if it is changing. You are mapping the swing in the video above, but your final swing was pretty fast. Slow that down too. It is hard to slow down, believe me, I know. But you will get the hang of it. It took me 6 months to get less steep at A6.

When you film your "change the picture' swing, do it as a normal swing. But also film your slow swing practice to see if you are getting it right. Then slowly speed up to a full swing. 

 

Thanks @boogielicious. Had a good session today. Took it nice and slow including my actual swings. Really felt nice. I’m hesitant to film it just yet as I know if I look as awful as the above I’ll just get frustrated. I get that feel ain’t real but what’s so perplexing is how I’ll make a change that feels so foreign to me, completely weird and uncomfortable yet look identical on film. Anyway, a swing thought that helped me today was ‘leave the lead arm out of it’ I really focused on not letting my lead (right) arm be tense and lead the swing. I did this while focusing on Erik’s ‘keep the trail arm straight’ swing thought. It helped me to not let my trail (left) arm get way behind me and over bent. More to come...thanks for your input.

[DeadMan]

A couple of thoughts:

1. Film it. You don't need to post it. Feel is not real, and you might feel like you're making a huge change but not actually changing much in the picture. It can be frustrating, yes. But it's much more frustrating to spin your wheels because you're not actually changing anything. Imagine if you don't film yourself for two months and then when you do, it's the same as before. That's much worse than being frustrated that you don't have an instant fix.
2. Slow it down. Make sure you are actually doing what you are trying to do. Use a mirror. Use a camera. Whatever. Make a full swing, but take it slow enough that you actually do what you're supposed to be doing.
3. Maybe try something that will physically prevent you from getting too flat. For example, you could put a stick in the ground that you will hit if you're too flat but will avoid if you're not. Then, avoid the stick.

[Vinsk]

57 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

A couple of thoughts:

1. Film it. You don't need to post it. Feel is not real, and you might feel like you're making a huge change but not actually changing much in the picture. It can be frustrating, yes. But it's much more frustrating to spin your wheels because you're not actually changing anything. Imagine if you don't film yourself for two months and then when you do, it's the same as before. That's much worse than being frustrated that you don't have an instant fix.
2. Slow it down. Make sure you are actually doing what you are trying to do. Use a mirror. Use a camera. Whatever. Make a full swing, but take it slow enough that you actually do what you're supposed to be doing.
3. Maybe try something that will physically prevent you from getting too flat. For example, you could put a stick in the ground that you will hit if you're too flat but will avoid if you're not. Then, avoid the stick.

Good advice for sure. I was actually thinking of getting that Live Golf camera so I could see myself as I practice. I totally believe feel ain’t real. What I find odd though is we do feel. What we think we’re doing often isn’t the reality once filmed. My point was how can I feel totally awkward...again..not a specific feel like straight lead arm, trail elbow 90*, but a completely different feel altogether. Be it different view of the ball, muscles pulling that weren’t in previous swing, and just feeling awkward yet when I view the film...it looks just like my previous miserable swing. Wtf? Would be like grabbing your club trying a totally different grip..maybe way way too strong...then looking down to see it’s exactly your same neutral grip. The swing I take after my slow pre-swing felt really awkward to me ...yet the video clearly shows I did nothing different. I’m going to continue filming and slow it down. Thanks for your input. Crazy game.

[iacas]

You're flat (shoulder turn) on the left.

You're better on the right, but then your left elbow doesn't come off your chest quite as much, your hands don't get as high, your left elbow over-flexes… etc.

[Vinsk]

Thanks @iacas....so shoulder angle on the right and arms on the left is what I need to aim for? From the pic on the right...it looks as though I need to apply the ‘keep trail arm straight’ to encourage me to raise it some? 

44 minutes ago, iacas said:

left elbow doesn't come off your chest

Did you mean right elbow?

[iacas]

10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Thanks @iacas....so shoulder angle on the right and arms on the left is what I need to aim for? From the pic on the right...it looks as though I need to apply the ‘keep trail arm straight’ to encourage me to raise it some? 

Your shoulders should turn close to perpendicular to your "torso angle" at setup. This helps keep your head relatively stable.

10 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Did you mean right elbow?

Unless I'm having a dyslexic moment… no.

And I can see why you shank so many balls.

[Vinsk]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your shoulders should turn close to perpendicular to your "torso angle" at setup. This helps keep your head relatively stable.

Unless I'm having a dyslexic moment… no.

And I can see why you shank so many balls.

I'm just not seeing the relationship of my left elbow and chest. Elbow height and angle yes, what do you mean by 'elbow coming off chest'. Is my shanking due to my arm positions? Nobody has ever been able to say 'This is why you shank so often.'

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I'm just not seeing the relationship of my left elbow and chest. Elbow height and angle yes, what do you mean by 'elbow coming off chest'. Is my shanking due to my arm positions? Nobody has ever been able to say 'This is why you shank so often.'

The thread below goes into more detail about elbow positions. Because your shoulder turn is flatter, it is harder for you to get your arms in the right position on the downswing.

When I was working on shoulder turn a few years back with my instructor, the feel was lower left shoulder ,higher right shoulder (opposite for you) as I did the backswing. I practiced with a club across my shoulders. At A4, the shaft should point a few inches over the ball. You should start with that priority piece and not worry about the elbow yet I would think.

 

[iacas]

Kevin,

12 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I'm just not seeing the relationship of my left elbow and chest.

Here it is. Your left elbow is more "in front of you" and less "around you" here. It's also a bit higher, or farther off your chest.

I'm also not even sure your left hand is on the club. I think the grip has relaxed and your fingers/palm have opened up here.

From there ("there" being across the line with your trail elbow well around you and low), you…

Lay the club back, and then have to throw it out at the ball. Your hips are barely open, your chest is actually quite closed.

This is why you shank - you're forced to throw the clubhead (and thus the hosel) out at the golf ball.

If you look at your finish, then, you again just yank everything back inside and low.

But getting back to the question…

12 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I'm just not seeing the relationship of my left elbow and chest. Elbow height and angle yes, what do you mean by 'elbow coming off chest'. Is my shanking due to my arm positions? Nobody has ever been able to say 'This is why you shank so often.'

You shank because you're swinging your arms around you too much, not vertically enough, and because the clubhead is coming from across the line at the top, laying off, and then being thrown out and yanked back inside.

---

Here's what I'd work on at this point:

1. Your shoulder tilts at the top are really bad in your practice swing (notice how much higher your head is on the left, above), and still not great during the real swing.
2. Your arms stay too low, and your left elbow too low and too far around behind you.
3. The club crosses the line at the top, and re-routes violently to the inside on the downswing.

That's the order I'd attack these things. I'd steepen the shoulder tilts at the top. More right side bend, more right shoulder pointing down at the ground, less of your right shoulder pushing your chin up at the top of the backswing.

Then I'd work on keeping the left elbow "in front of you" a bit more and off your chest more.

Then I'd work on making the club feel laid off at the top.

This will take awhile.

[boogielicious]

@Vinsk

I highly recommend Evolvr. It is inexpensive and they will give you the same instruction as Erik with much more detail as Erik has trained them.

It really helps, especially with stuff like this.

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

Kevin,

Here it is. Your left elbow is more "in front of you" and less "around you" here. It's also a bit higher, or farther off your chest.

I'm also not even sure your left hand is on the club. I think the grip has relaxed and your fingers/palm have opened up here.

From there ("there" being across the line with your trail elbow well around you and low), you…

Lay the club back, and then have to throw it out at the ball. Your hips are barely open, your chest is actually quite closed.

This is why you shank - you're forced to throw the clubhead (and thus the hosel) out at the golf ball.

If you look at your finish, then, you again just yank everything back inside and low.

But getting back to the question…

You shank because you're swinging your arms around you too much, not vertically enough, and because the clubhead is coming from across the line at the top, laying off, and then being thrown out and yanked back inside.

---

Here's what I'd work on at this point:

1. Your shoulder tilts at the top are really bad in your practice swing (notice how much higher your head is on the left, above), and still not great during the real swing.
2. Your arms stay too low, and your left elbow too low and too far around behind you.
3. The club crosses the line at the top, and re-routes violently to the inside on the downswing.

That's the order I'd attack these things. I'd steepen the shoulder tilts at the top. More right side bend, more right shoulder pointing down at the ground, less of your right shoulder pushing your chin up at the top of the backswing.

Then I'd work on keeping the left elbow "in front of you" a bit more and off your chest more.

Then I'd work on making the club feel laid off at the top.

This will take awhile.

This is amazing. I can’t thank you enough Erik. Everything you just wrote/showed makes sense to me. Half a dozen instructors I’ve spent hundreds on (a few grand probably) haven’t been able to do this. So I’ve got work to do. Thanks again. Finally seem to be able to film somewhat properly so Evolvr it is. Again, thank you.

49 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

@Vinsk

I highly recommend Evolvr. It is inexpensive and they will give you the same instruction as Erik with much more detail as Erik has trained them.

It really helps, especially with stuff like this.

Gonna sign up. Thanks guys.

[Vinsk]

@iacas, @boogielicious Thanks for the advice guys. I just signed up for Evolvr. Finally.

[mvmac]

On 9/17/2018 at 1:50 PM, Vinsk said:

Mike! I was just wanting to ask how this bs position looks to you. I’ve been practicing this in a mirror and tried to duplicate what I felt while on the range. I’ve been swinging way too inside and flat and thinking I may need to put a stick in the ground off my trail foot to encourage me to swing over it. 

Torso looks like it's turning too level to the ground. Going to want to feel the right shoulder working more under your chin. Put a club across your chest and try to point the shaft to a spot a foot or so behind the ball, this is an exaggeration. You want the shoulder working down and in.

 

[Vinsk]

7 hours ago, mvmac said:

Torso looks like it's turning too level to the ground. Going to want to feel the right shoulder working more under your chin. Put a club across your chest and try to point the shaft to a spot a foot or so behind the ball, this is an exaggeration. You want the shoulder working down and in.

 

Thanks Mike. I may some flexibility issues but going to work on all this. It seems when I do the trail hip up and back it becomes difficulty to then turn that hip back toward the target. Since I was a child I’ve never been able to sit ‘Indian style’. While on the floor I can place my right lateral thigh to the ground but I can’t move my left thigh beyond about 40*. But all this has been very eye opening so thank you. I’ve just joined Evolvr so I’m finally on a proper routine.

[iacas]

10 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I may some flexibility issues but going to work on all this.

Let's see a video of you with a club across your shoulders, pointing it down to a spot just outside the golf ball.

[boogielicious]

On 10/4/2018 at 9:06 AM, Vinsk said:

Thanks Mike. I may some flexibility issues but going to work on all this. It seems when I do the trail hip up and back it becomes difficulty to then turn that hip back toward the target. Since I was a child I’ve never been able to sit ‘Indian style’. While on the floor I can place my right lateral thigh to the ground but I can’t move my left thigh beyond about 40*. But all this has been very eye opening so thank you. I’ve just joined Evolvr so I’m finally on a proper routine.

There is a great stretch you can do to improve this with the club across the shoulder drill but with hands on the shaft instead of your chest.  You rotated to A4 and hold for 5 breaths. Then rotate through to the sameness position on the opposite side and hold. I do it in front of a mirror at times to make sure I am in the right position  

Do this three times while warming up. After a week or two you will notice you have more range. I do this as part of every warm up.