Ball position for chip shots...

[deekay]

Hi Guys,

Dave Pelz advocates playing the ball way back in your stance, perhaps even outside your back foot. He says you cannot hit it fat like that. The chipping-with-a-putting-stroke video indicates a more centered ball position. Which do you find better in eliminating fat shots?

I play on kikuyu courses, which often give you a "cuppy" lie in fairly tough grass. Seldom does the ball rest nicely on top of the grass. So catching it even slightly fat is a disaster because the grass is tough enough to stop the clubhead dead in its tracks on a chip shot.

Given that I am an 18 handicapper, how would you suggest I play this shot?

[Hammer 4]

Depends on the lie, but for a decent lie, I believe I play mine about 2 inches inside my back foot. I'd play it further back for a crumy lie.

Never tried chipping with the ball outside of my back foot.

[mvmac]

Which do you find better in eliminating fat shots?

Given that I am an 18 handicapper, how would you suggest I play this shot?

[Patch]

I use the same ball position, and stroke for most of my chip shots (95%) that I do for my putts. I like Paul Runyon's teachings on this.

I figured when I chip, or putt, I am am practicing the other stroke since there is no adjustment between the two strokes. Less compensations to learn, with more consistency thrown in for good measure.

[dchoye]

I was playing all my short game with ball relative to front heel. Worked but didn't feel comfortable for me today I notice more confident chipping/putting/ sand shots few inches in front of my back foot instep. For lobs/flops i like the ball relative to my front armpit

[mvmac]

I was playing all my short game with ball relative to front heel. Worked but didn't feel comfortable for me today I notice more confident chipping/putting/ sand shots few inches in front of my back foot instep.

For lobs/flops i like the ball relative to my front armpit

Well you said it yourself, it worked, the more you do it the more comfortable it will feel. Playing it too far back only brings the leading edge more into play, gives your less room for error.

[deekay]

Mmmm, would a more central ball position not not require a shallow AOA into the ball? I am asking with regard to the "cuppy" lies that we often get with this kikuyu grass in our area. As I mentioned in my post, it's seldom that the ball lies nicely on top of the grass, even on the fringe. If the club snags that stuff on the way to the ball it's game over!

I ask because I feel that I am experimenting too much with my method. Sometimes I play the ball way back, as Pelz suggests, and it works. But sometimes not. And sometimes I have the ball more central, with a shallow putting stroke and it works. And sometimes not.

There seems to be 2 schools of thought: The ball back with a descending strike method, and the ball more centered with a putting stroke method. I need to settle on one that will work on the poorly conditioned courses I can afford to play on, and then practice only that method.

As we play so many short chip shots during a round, I am sure that many of you have had to settle on a method and make it work for you. It is a commonly played shot, after all, and I would like to benefit from your experience.....

[Club Rat]

@deekay high hdcp player who often has more play around greens, you should concentrate on playing "bump & runs" using your

9 & 8 irons whenever possible. These shots are easier and less stressful than trying to hit crisp wedges with spin.

Then as you build confidence around greens, progress to chip & pitching play using both low ball flight and higher ball flights.

Many less experience players struggle with ball positioning, both placement and ball being to far away from their feet/body.

Having the ball too far away cause improper posture and swing arc which often leads to tensions when executing the shot.

With level surfaces, ball positioning can vary with distance of play. When one has stances on various terrain conditions, then it should be the best relaxed position while

adjusting to level the shoulders to the slope. When stances are severe abnormal on slopes, especially in thick ruff, then its just a tuff play for anyone.

Club Rat

[dchoye]

I use the same ball position, and stroke for most of my chip shots (95%) that I do for my putts. I like Paul Runyon's teachings on this.

I figured when I chip, or putt, I am am practicing the other stroke since there is no adjustment between the two strokes. Less compensations to learn, with more consistency thrown in for good measure.

I like this chip shot.

One of the most difficult lies around for me is a bare tight lie on hardpan.

Tight lie with soft condition I prefer to hit like a fat lob .

However hard dried up turf with bare lie, I like the putter or a wedge  chip shot like this.

[deekay]

Maybe I am not making myself clear.....

I often find myself 3 or 4 paces off the green, with the ball sitting down slightly in short, but tough grass. The challenge is not to snag the grass on the way through to the ball.

I would like to hear how more experienced players would play this shot, particularly with regard to ball position. Is the chipping-with-the-putting-method the best way in this situation also?

[mvmac]

Maybe I am not making myself clear.....

I often find myself 3 or 4 paces off the green, with the ball sitting down slightly in short, but tough grass. The challenge is not to snag the grass on the way through to the ball.

I would like to hear how more experienced players would play this shot, particularly with regard to ball position. Is the chipping-with-the-putting-method the best way in this situation also?

If you don't want the club to "snag" then using the chip/putt would be best or even adding in some pitching technique . Ball position wouldn't be back because the more I play it back the steeper the angle of attack. If the ball is sitting down, like the ball is towards the back of a divot, and you're using a shorter chip backswing, then you have to move the ball back a little in order to get at the ball. From a hardpan lie I would mostly chip/putt it or pitch it.

From your example, you could also putt it since you're only 3-4 paces off the green. Even though that might not be the "textbook" play, the goal is to advance the ball towards the hole and have your next shot be closer to the hole and on the putting surface. Takes the flub short of the green and the skull over the green out of play.

[Club Rat]

@deekay,,your in dications only r eflect a few circumstances of the lie  of " with the ball sitting down in short, but tough grass."

That is the "rub of the green" which every golfer deals with.

I always claim "if it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck"

Man Up !!!!! and chop it out..........

Do the best you can and play on........

There is "No Miracle" method or suggestion for "bad lies"

Take your licks and move on and play your best...........

Club Rat

[deekay]

Thanks mvmac and Club Rat, your posts helped.

If I read you correctly, at my level I will struggle with that "cuppy" lie however I try to play it. So all I can do is play it a little back in my stance and try to "wedge" it out with a wedge (haha) and hope for the best....

When the ball IS lying well, the putting method (with either putter or an iron) seems to be the way to go. And for anything further out I can pitch, using the bounce, which I seem to be able to manage OK. From a decent lie, at least.

So am I correct in saying that ultimately the lie determines the method? That the decision, on approaching the ball, is not: "What method should I use?" but rather "What lie do I have?" and the answer to THAT question determines how to play the shot?

[mvmac]

Thanks mvmac and Club Rat, your posts helped.

If I read you correctly, at my level I will struggle with that "cuppy" lie however I try to play it. So all I can do is play it a little back in my stance and try to "wedge" it out with a wedge (haha) and hope for the best....

Or putt it. Hit 5 putts from the "cuppy" lies and 5 chips from the same kind of lie and see which works best. I'd be willing to bet the putter wins, meaning on average the balls will be closer to the hole.

When the ball IS lying well, the putting method (with either putter or an iron) seems to be the way to go. And for anything further out I can pitch, using the bounce, which I seem to be able to manage OK. From a decent lie, at least.

When the lie is average to good, yes chip/putt it or putt it.

[deekay]

Thanks, mvmac,

I am going to follow your good advice and just use the putter from that close in. No more on-course experimentation! At the very least it should take the absolute disaster results out of the picture.