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Stumpy

My Massive Improvement in 3 Weeks

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So I'm a relatively new golfer.  Been at it in earnest about 3 years or so.  I've been playing to a 26 handicap up until about three weeks ago.  Its been a long-term goal to break 50 consistently (I usually only get a chance to play 9 holes at a time).  I have hovered for a year around 51-52 on average.

Three weeks ago I shot the best round of my life at league, with a horrible start, and then a fantastic finish.  A 47.  The week after, I did even better with a 46.  This week, I didn't get a chance to pick up a club all week, so I was expecting a bit of a relapse.  Shot a 45 Monday night.

It all started because of some article I found online about the difference between swingers, and hitters.  I'd never heard of such a thing.  That first week I decided to do some on-course experimentation, and once I got the idea of it, started the best ball striking I've ever had.  And for the record, it turns out I'm a hitter, and I'm loving it. :)

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Beware  the golf gods.  Once you think you have it figured out the next round eats you up.  Having said that, I hope you do have it dialed in.

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Beware  the golf gods.  Once you think you have it figured out the next round eats you up.  Having said that, I hope you do have it dialed in.

So, so very true!

I feel bad for the OP for, surely, the Golf Gods will now rain down on him with fury and vengeance.

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It is always short lived anyway. When I started improving I quickly realized as my game changing my expectations changed with it.

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My experience tells me that 'hitters' can improve but only 'swingers' can get to the top.  Here 'the top' means all you might be capable of.

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Congratulations on your improvement! Hopefully it will last. Any article that can have that effect is one I would like to read. Could you post a link?

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I know, I totally just jinxed myself or something.  But its exciting.  I'd experienced the temporary fixes.  But never had anything last 2 rounds in a row, much less 3 improved rounds in a row.  I also feel pretty strongly that this is something that can continue to be improved upon.  My ball striking is long and far more accurate, taking quality divots.  My driver average has gone from about 230 to about 250, and I feel like I could get it to 280 if I gave a little more effort.  If I could get my putting under control I could have something here!  :)

This is the article that first got me thinking about it.

http://www.golflagtips.com/hitting-vs-swinging-part-1/

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I know, I totally just jinxed myself or something.  But its exciting.  I'd experienced the temporary fixes.  But never had anything last 2 rounds in a row, much less 3 improved rounds in a row.  I also feel pretty strongly that this is something that can continue to be improved upon.  My ball striking is long and far more accurate, taking quality divots.  My driver average has gone from about 230 to about 250, and I feel like I could get it to 280 if I gave a little more effort.  If I could get my putting under control I could have something here!  :)

This is the article that first got me thinking about it.

http://www.golflagtips.com/hitting-vs-swinging-part-1/

congrats on the improvement...

I looked at the article in the link... the visual representation of the "swing" looks more like casting than anything i've learned. Never seen that promoted in teaching before.

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congrats on the improvement...

I looked at the article in the link... the visual representation of the "swing" looks more like casting than anything i've learned. Never seen that promoted in teaching before.

I think by the time he gets down to the part where the third arrow is he has about 5* of lag left. I imagine that would be pretty hard to keep that lag for a hands forward impact condition when you're just "hanging onto the club for a free ride". Sergio is a bit of an extreme example, but look at this from a similar arm position:

Also notice the weight of Sergio is forward versus the weight in the article being leaned all the way back. I foresee many fat shots in that article's future.

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Interestingly enough, I feel for the first time I understand what lag really is suppose to feel like, and I'm hitting very few fat shots.  I don't agree with everything in that particular article, and I've found some better information since, but that was the start of it all.

When pushing down from the top, there is no flipping or turning of my hands at all, they are completely passive.  Then at the bottom they just snap over with a very thoughtless release.

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Wow! Thanks for this thread! So I read the articles and tried the aim point theory whilst working on lag, with just a few swings I was striking the ball cleaner than ever! For the first time ever I'm starting to leave a divot mark after the ball and I've easy gained a club in length, so then by slightly closing/opening my stance and moving the aim point slightly left/right I started shaping shots.. INTENTIONALLY!!!! Amazing information right here and an absolute revelation! I'm obsessed by this new improvement and feel a need to hit the range now everyday to get this ingrained quickly before I lose it! Even the 5 iron was soaring and I'm tempted to release the 4 iron from the garage! Just one of many reasons why I like this forum so much! A great source of info!

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Glad someone found it useful.  I know its been met with a lot of skepticism both here and with some of my golfing buddies.  Proof is in the pudding though.  I played another 9 last night at a course I've never played before.  Didn't play as well as my last 3 rounds, but still played below my average, and kept it under 50.  I feel like if I knew the greens better I would have been in much better shape.

I did find I was pushing a lot of shots last night, which was a little odd for me, but still striking well.

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Well I usually aim at the front of the ball, and I would class myself as a hitter, but with working on my lag and pulling the club down with my left arm, I'm now working on becoming a swinger! I can see some erratic scoring over the next few weeks but that's fine as long as I'm ingraining this swing and tweaking the set up!

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Stumpy, have you videotaped yourself swinging this way and compared it to the diagrams?  Or are you going on feel?

The impact condition in that picture is poor, and won't lead to good shots consistently.  However, the "feel" of the swing might be just right for you.  For example, it really helps me to "feel" like my hips go over my left foot at impact.  It feels like they do.  But on video, they are not even close to getting that far forward, but thats what I need to "feel" to get my weight forward at impact.

It is much more likely you identify with the "feel" of this swing that is causing you to swing well than you are the only person in the universe who improves by hanging his weight back and throwing the club way outside from the top.

Can we get a video?

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Stumpy, have you videotaped yourself swinging this way and compared it to the diagrams?  Or are you going on feel?

The impact condition in that picture is poor, and won't lead to good shots consistently.  However, the "feel" of the swing might be just right for you.  For example, it really helps me to "feel" like my hips go over my left foot at impact.  It feels like they do.  But on video, they are not even close to getting that far forward, but thats what I need to "feel" to get my weight forward at impact.

It is much more likely you identify with the "feel" of this swing that is causing you to swing well than you are the only person in the universe who improves by hanging his weight back and throwing the club way outside from the top.

Can we get a video?


I don't have any quality way to get a video, and I'm certainly basing more on feeling than diagrams.  I also don't agree that the weight should in any way be hanging back, a big part for me is getting it moving forward.  Like I said, I don't agree with everything, but the idea of the swing originating with the right arm pushing, instead of the left side/hips pulling, is a huge difference in FEEL and is working very well.

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Quote:
I don't have any quality way to get a video

99% of the videos on this site are with a camera phone in a cell phone.  It works great.  You can either play a little with distance from you, or get a stand for $10 at a best buy type store.  Its worth it, every dollar.  I was a 15-17 hdcp when i started regularly videotaping my swing.  I was flipping like crazy.  You never could have convinced me i was flipping without those videos.

Quote:

Like I said, I don't agree with everything, but the idea of the swing originating with the right arm pushing, instead of the left side/hips pulling, is a huge difference in FEEL and is working very well.

Fair enough, and I am glad you are getting better.  However, while it might feel like this will be perfect forever right now, its going to stop working.  Its human nature - if a little right arm push is good, a lot of right arm push is better, right?  Swing tips are like that.  They work bc its letting you feel something new, but its very difficult to *build* on something like this.  If you don't know *why* the right arm push is working (for example, you clearly don't agree with that diagram about where the weight is, or about the sweet spot path going way outside - so you obviously don't agree with the larger "building blocks" of this swing) then you are going to play well for a week or two, then go back to where you were before.

The key is to get an understanding of *why* certain feels are working, and that is easiest done on video.  Is it working b/c its getting your weight forward?  Or because it gives you a better sense of clubface control?

Think about what you are going to have to do to improve your swing beyond now.  You are going to have to think about something else, work on something else, groove something else.  If you don't understand *why* this feel works for you, then you are going to jump from tip to tip.  Its not a good way to get better at golf.

Anyway, I don't want to be negative nancy here, but i also don't want to see you get ahead of yourself.  The "why" is much more important than the "what".  I'd figure out a way to figure out why this works for you (video, slower, shorter swings, etc...) so that you can build a swing out of it instead of just rely on it to play a little better for a little while.

There are alot of swing "theories" that work and can produce good players.  However, the key is *understanding* NOT *duplication*.  As usual, my $0.02.

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So I read the articles and tried the aim point theory whilst working on lag, with just a few swings I was striking the ball cleaner than ever!

The hitting vs swinging concept didn't really resonate with me, but the aimpoint is an interesting idea. I already did that with my driver (as per the driver video in another current post on this site), but I gave it a try with wedges today on the range and it seemed to work pretty well.

Thanks for the link!

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It is always short lived anyway. When I started improving I quickly realized as my game changing my expectations changed with it.

Yep.

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