Are you ready for some NFL Football? 2014 Edition.

[dsc123]

Come on @boogielicious !  1, 2, or something inbetween?  What do you think is most likely at this point?

[boogielicious]

Come on @boogielicious !  1, 2, or something inbetween?  What do you think is most likely at this point?

2.

I don't think the NFL pays that much attention to this "process".  If they did, they would have a validated procedure with calibrated gauges and understand the importance of measuring the ball the exact same way using the exact same method at the exact same temperature.

Go to your gas station and find the tag/stamp from your state's Weights & Measures department.  They check every gas pump and have a validated method and use calibrated scales because they don't want the consumer to be ripped off.

My company makes consumer products. Every scale and gauge we use is calibrated. Every method of measurement is validated.  It has to be so we can stand legally behind our products as being safe and effective for the consumer.  The FDA makes sure of that.  If they aren't, the FDA can ask, "How can you prove the pressure was X or the weight added was Y."  You can't unless validation and calibration are shown.

The pressure in a football in an NFL game, until last Monday, was the least of anyone's concern in terms of what is important in winning a football game.  It is a rule in a book for the NFL.  But do they see it as the highest priority for a game?  The kicking balls are keeps by the refs because inflation impacts distance.  But the balls used in the game have been left up the the teams to break in.  If it was critical to the NFL, they wouldn't let the team touch them just like the kicking balls.

Check out this interesting article by Brady Quinn.  He talks about how under-inflated balls will not fly as far and over-inflated will fly further.  There was a link to an ESPN sports science segment, but it is gone now.  The advantages are cancelled out be disadvantages either way.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflategate-a-bunch-of-hot-air

There is also one by former Giants center Gray Ruegamer.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflategate-penalty-should-be-minor-just-like-the-infraction

[Golfingdad]

My theory: One of the equipment staff members knew how Brady liked the footballs and made the alteration.

How do you reconcile this theory with the other 236 NFL games that Tom Brady has played in?  (235 of which displayed no inkling of an issue with the ball pressure.)

I'm leaning in the same direction as @saevel25 right now ... its entirely likely that this is all much ado about nothing.

[club ho]

Did you watch and listen to the entire video?  At the end of the video they say that the results don't correlate with the Ideal Gas Law.  Surely you are not questioning the validity of the Ideal Gas Law. They (whoever they are) attribute this lack of correlation to the laws of physics to leakage of air from the ball (which was sitting in a garage for 8 years so probably a good guess).  There were so many uncontrolled variables in this experiment it is really meaningless relevant to implied results.  At this point I have to believe anyone who believes someone didn't, with intent, under inflate the footballs used by the Patriots has to be smoking those funny cigarettes.  Someone cheated, I don't know who

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=619508834842607&set;=vb.232508006876027&type;=2&theater;

another similar experiment. Same results.

[Golfingdad]

I don't think the NFL pays that much attention to this "process".  If they did, they would have a validated procedure with calibrated gauges and understand the importance of measuring the ball the exact same way using the exact same method at the exact same temperature.

Yup.  Add to that that if this was a big deal, they could easily have a little form they fill out with a written list of the PSI of each ball they checked and they could also do it at the end of each game.

The pressure in a football in an NFL game, until last Monday, was the least of anyone's concern in terms of what is important in winning a football game.  It is a rule in a book for the NFL.  But do they see it as the highest priority for a game?  The kicking balls are keeps by the refs because inflation impacts distance.  But the balls used in the game have been left up the the teams to break in.  If it was critical to the NFL, they wouldn't let the team touch them just like the kicking balls.

Great point.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

I don't think the NFL pays that much attention to this "process".  If they did, they would have a validated procedure with calibrated gauges and understand the importance of measuring the ball the exact same way using the exact same method at the exact same temperature.

Yup.  Add to that that if this was a big deal, they could easily have a little form they fill out with a written list of the PSI of each ball they checked and they could also do it at the end of each game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

The pressure in a football in an NFL game, until last Monday, was the least of anyone's concern in terms of what is important in winning a football game.  It is a rule in a book for the NFL.  But do they see it as the highest priority for a game?  The kicking balls are keeps by the refs because inflation impacts distance.  But the balls used in the game have been left up the the teams to break in.  If it was critical to the NFL, they wouldn't let the team touch them just like the kicking balls.

Great point.

The NFL didn't worry too much about this:

http://espn.go.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/11218/nfl-aware-of-game-ball-incident-during-panthers-vikings

[boogielicious]

And where's the uproar for this:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12142088/nfl-investigating-whether-text-messages-were-sent-cleveland-browns-sideline-games

and this:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/859317-nfl-so-the-giants-cheated-big-deal-doesnt-everyone

[dsc123]

How do you reconcile this theory with the other 236 NFL games that Tom Brady has played in?  (235 of which displayed no inkling of an issue with the ball pressure.)

2.

I don't think the NFL pays that much attention to this "process".  If they did, they would have a validated procedure with calibrated gauges and understand the importance of measuring the ball the exact same way using the exact same method at the exact same temperature.

Go to your gas station and find the tag/stamp from your state's Weights & Measures department.  They check every gas pump and have a validated method and use calibrated scales because they don't want the consumer to be ripped off.

My company makes consumer products. Every scale and gauge we use is calibrated. Every method of measurement is validated.  It has to be so we can stand legally behind our products as being safe and effective for the consumer.  The FDA makes sure of that.  If they aren't, the FDA can ask, "How can you prove the pressure was X or the weight added was Y."  You can't unless validation and calibration are shown.

The pressure in a football in an NFL game, until last Monday, was the least of anyone's concern in terms of what is important in winning a football game.  It is a rule in a book for the NFL.  But do they see it as the highest priority for a game?  The kicking balls are keeps by the refs because inflation impacts distance.  But the balls used in the game have been left up the the teams to break in.  If it was critical to the NFL, they wouldn't let the team touch them just like the kicking balls.

Check out this interesting article by Brady Quinn.  He talks about how under-inflated balls will not fly as far and over-inflated will fly further.  There was a link to an ESPN sports science segment, but it is gone now.  The advantages are cancelled out be disadvantages either way.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflategate-a-bunch-of-hot-air

There is also one by former Giants center Gray Ruegamer.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflategate-penalty-should-be-minor-just-like-the-infraction

Thanks!  I totally get that position, even if I disagree with it. And it helps to know because when you bring up other possibilities, I know that you're not presenting them as if they completely exonerate the pats.

Its the people who actually think aliens or some other thing happened to the balls that I can't understand.  And I don't mean @saevel25 or @Golfingdad , I get that they're just trying to think of other possibilities before accusing someone of dishonesty.

Did you see something that indicated to you that the gauges were not calibrated or do you just raise that as a possibility?

The link you posted from MMQB is an interesting look at the process.  One thing I noticed (I didn't watch the video, just read the article) is that it seems like they test all the balls in the same room.  So both sets should have been at the same temp when tested prior to the game and presumably during the second test, too.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

How do you reconcile this theory with the other 236 NFL games that Tom Brady has played in?  (235 of which displayed no inkling of an issue with the ball pressure.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by boogielicious

2.

I don't think the NFL pays that much attention to this "process".  If they did, they would have a validated procedure with calibrated gauges and understand the importance of measuring the ball the exact same way using the exact same method at the exact same temperature.

Go to your gas station and find the tag/stamp from your state's Weights & Measures department.  They check every gas pump and have a validated method and use calibrated scales because they don't want the consumer to be ripped off.

My company makes consumer products. Every scale and gauge we use is calibrated. Every method of measurement is validated.  It has to be so we can stand legally behind our products as being safe and effective for the consumer.  The FDA makes sure of that.  If they aren't, the FDA can ask, "How can you prove the pressure was X or the weight added was Y."  You can't unless validation and calibration are shown.

The pressure in a football in an NFL game, until last Monday, was the least of anyone's concern in terms of what is important in winning a football game.  It is a rule in a book for the NFL.  But do they see it as the highest priority for a game?  The kicking balls are keeps by the refs because inflation impacts distance.  But the balls used in the game have been left up the the teams to break in.  If it was critical to the NFL, they wouldn't let the team touch them just like the kicking balls.

Check out this interesting article by Brady Quinn.  He talks about how under-inflated balls will not fly as far and over-inflated will fly further.  There was a link to an ESPN sports science segment, but it is gone now.  The advantages are cancelled out be disadvantages either way.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflategate-a-bunch-of-hot-air

There is also one by former Giants center Gray Ruegamer.

http://www.footballbyfootball.com/column/deflategate-penalty-should-be-minor-just-like-the-infraction

Thanks!  I totally get that position, even if I disagree with it.    And it helps to know because when you bring up other possibilities, I know that you're not presenting them as if they completely exonerate the pats.

Its the people who actually think aliens or some other thing happened to the balls that I can't understand.  And I don't mean @saevel25 or @Golfingdad , I get that they're just trying to think of other possibilities before accusing someone of dishonesty.

Did you see something that indicated to you that the gauges were not calibrated or do you just raise that as a possibility?

The link you posted from MMQB is an interesting look at the process.  One thing I noticed (I didn't watch the video, just read the article) is that it seems like they test all the balls in the same room.  So both sets should have been at the same temp when tested prior to the game and presumably during the second test, too.

I didn't see anything in the video, but I would look for a calibration sticker if I was investigating.

[dsc123]

I didn't see anything in the video, but I would look for a calibration sticker if I was investigating.

Gotcha.

Maybe next year we'll have answers.

---

From deadspin:

[Golfingdad]

Did you see something that indicated to you that the gauges were not calibrated or do you just raise that as a possibility?

The link you posted from MMQB is an interesting look at the process.  One thing I noticed (I didn't watch the video, just read the article) is that it seems like they test all the balls in the same room.  So both sets should have been at the same temp when tested prior to the game and presumably during the second test, too.

For the record, I still consider myself a very unbiased outside observer.  I am not a Patriots fan - not remotely close - however, I'm not a Patriots hater either.  Just a football fan with a perennially under-acheiving team (Chargers).

What Scott and I agree on is the fact that there is no "evidence" that the balls were tampered with unless and until there is anything definitive about the testing procedure.  And I can't help but notice how easily people are willing to dissect every word and facial tick from Tom Brady and convince themselves that he is lying or being evasive, while at the same time just taking on faith that the balls were strictly tested before the game.  You WANT to crucify the Patriots and therefore, all you need is a referee going "Yeah, I tested them before the game."  You don't want to ask anymore questions beyond that, because that's enough right there.

Now, let me paint a different scenario.  Imagine if last weeks game ended close, and imagine if, in his postgame press conference Andrew Luck mentioned that there was something off with the feel of the balls for the entire first half.  He couldn't get a grip, they felt over-inflated, and he felt that that contributed to his overthrows and fumbles.  He brought it to the attention of his equipment guy and they brought it to the attention of the NFL, and they come to find out that they were all over-inflated by 1 PSI.  Now everybody goes to the referee and says, what gives?  The referee says "Yeah, I tested them before the game."

Do you honestly think that the world would accept that answer?  Hell no.  Now I ask you, why the discrepancy?  Nobody wants to admit it, but the answer is plain as day.  It's because it's the Patriots.  Period.  Scott's other links regarding cheating - one even specifically involving definitive proof that balls were being tampered with on the sidelines!!!!, and one involving something quite similar to videotaping opponents from the sideline - that nobody gives a rats ass about prove that.

[boogielicious]

I like the last one!

[Gunther]

How do you reconcile this theory with the other 236 NFL games that Tom Brady has played in?  (235 of which displayed no inkling of an issue with the ball pressure.) I'm leaning in the same direction as @saevel25 right now ... its entirely likely that this is all much ado about nothing.

Aikman's point was that Brady has probably been doing this for years. This is why Brady better be working a grip machine the next 2 weeks; he probably hasn't thrown a 13 psi ball in a long time. I'll also be curious to see how many drops the receivers have in the SB. May not become apparent in that game given the temperatures likely but it will be interesting. [quote name="boogielicious" url="/t/76052/are-you-ready-for-some-nfl-football-2014-edition/1280_40#post_1097905"]And where's the uproar for this: [URL=http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12142088/nfl-investigating-whether-text-messages-were-sent-cleveland-browns-sideline-games]http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/12142088/nfl-investigating-whether-text-messages-were-sent-cleveland-browns-sideline-games[/URL] and this: [URL=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/859317-nfl-so-the-giants-cheated-big-deal-doesnt-everyone]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/859317-nfl-so-the-giants-cheated-big-deal-doesnt-everyone[/URL] [/quote] I would think you'd recognize the uproar over this is due chiefly to Belichek's history; he's a proven cheater, which means he's also a liar. If this happened with any other team, we'd barely be talking about it.

[meenman]

Aikman's point was that Brady has probably been doing this for years. This is why Brady better be working a grip machine the next 2 weeks; he probably hasn't thrown a 13 psi ball in a long time.

I'll also be curious to see how many drops the receivers have in the SB. May not become apparent in that game given the temperatures likely but it will be interesting.

I would think you'd recognize the uproar over this is due chiefly to Belichek's history; he's a proven cheater, which means he's also a liar. If this happened with any other team, we'd barely be talking about it.

That and the first instinct of the fans of the guilty is to try to point their fingers at others to justify their shenanigans.

[phan52]

I would think you'd recognize the uproar over this is due chiefly to Belichek's history; he's a proven cheater, which means he's also a liar. If this happened with any other team, we'd barely be talking about it.

This.

Belichick is all about getting an edge, as most coaches are. The difference with him is that rules are ambiguous and meant to be challenged and, when you think that, lines will be crossed.

Bang him and his team, NFL. Bang 'em hard.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

How do you reconcile this theory with the other 236 NFL games that Tom Brady has played in?  (235 of which displayed no inkling of an issue with the ball pressure.)

I'm leaning in the same direction as @saevel25

right now ... its entirely likely that this is all much ado about nothing.

Aikman's point was that Brady has probably been doing this for years. This is why Brady better be working a grip machine the next 2 weeks; he probably hasn't thrown a 13 psi ball in a long time.

I'll also be curious to see how many drops the receivers have in the SB. May not become apparent in that game given the temperatures likely but it will be interesting.

Quote:

He threw ones with 13 psi in the second half of the AFC Championship.  They only scored 28 points.  The refs changed the balls at half time.  It made no difference. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

[Golfingdad]

Aikman's point was that Brady has probably been doing this for years. This is why Brady better be working a grip machine the next 2 weeks; he probably hasn't thrown a 13 psi ball in a long time.

I'll also be curious to see how many drops the receivers have in the SB. May not become apparent in that game given the temperatures likely but it will be interesting.

I would think you'd recognize the uproar over this is due chiefly to Belichek's history; he's a proven cheater, which means he's also a liar. If this happened with any other team, we'd barely be talking about it.

He threw ones with 13 psi in the second half of the AFC Championship.  They only scored 28 points.  The refs changed the balls at half time.  It made no difference. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

And in every Super Bowl he's played in where he's amassed something like 7 TD's versus 1 INT and a 65% completion percentage and 95-ish rating.

[meenman]

He threw ones with 13 psi in the second half of the AFC Championship.  They only scored 28 points.  The refs changed the balls at half time.  It made no difference. I guess you haven't been paying attention.

Couldve scored 50 points with legit balls and it wouldnt make a difference, tommy boy and belicheat are so insecure they feel the need to cheat.