Chella Choi Cheating. What is the LPGA doing about it?

[Moppy]

The thing about it is that she marks the ball apparently with the intent of doing this, like she has practiced it, like it is a little plan she always carried in her head.

[tefunk]

This thread is about a professional golfer who was caught blatantly cheating. She refused to accept a penalty. The LPGA seems too gutless to act further at this stage. What does that have to do with you on the golf course? Are you on TV? Did millions see you cheat?  And....how would you describe a cheat who doesn't like being busted? Are you saying that you'd react similarly? If the cap fits, wear it.

I'm well aware of what this thread is about... But thanks for your brilliant explanation anyway, Professor Obvious. You seem like such a happy, positive person!

[Shorty]

I'm well aware of what this thread is about... But thanks for your brilliant explanation anyway, Professor Obvious.

But you aren't because you have posed a question which has no bearing on the topic, showing that you don't understand the point.

Admitting that you cheat is not that great a thing, you know. Pity Chella Choi isn't more like you.

[tefunk]

But you aren't because you have posed a question which has no bearing on the topic, showing that you don't understand the point. Admitting that you cheat is not that great a thing, you know. Pity Chella Choi isn't more like you.

What I wrote was perfectly fitting with the rest of the posts in this thread... You just enjoy being argumentative with everyone, and finding some crazy angle to discount what anyone else says. But no worries, I'm familiar with the type of person you are, and it doesn't bother me... Provides for some comic relief to my day. Enjoy the rest of your day Shorty... Hope it gets better for you!

[Shorty]

What I wrote was perfectly fitting with the rest of the posts in this thread...

I don't see how.

The OP was about a televised example of outrageously poor sportsmanship and cheating.

You somehow wanted to twist that around to be suggesting that I'm an a*hole and would probably use derogatory terms if you did something that wasn't even close to what Choi did.

Give me one single example of a "crazy angle" used to discount another person's viepoint.

There are very few things I really disagree with here, except people who can't break 90 regularly thinking they have a chance to play on tour and people claiming that a certain wedge or putter is "better" than another. Or people claiming to be able to "feel" things that are scientifically proven not to be able to be felt.

[Lihu]

The rules don't care about intent, just actions. Even though I don't believe there was ill intent, she still broke the rules. She should definitely be reprimanded for her actions after the video was shown to her. Something should be in order.

[Slice of Life]

The rules don't care about intent, just actions. Even though I don't believe there was ill intent, she still broke the rules.

She should definitely be reprimanded for her actions after the video was shown to her. Something should be in order.

You're contradicting yourself. If she broke a rule with no ill-intent, then she should be DQ'd and that's all. Shouldn't be punished beyond that for an accident.

It's the obvious cheating that's cause for some sort of suspension or action by the LPGA.

[Golfingdad]

You're contradicting yourself. If she broke a rule with no ill-intent, then she should be DQ'd and that's all. Shouldn't be punished beyond that for an accident.

It's the obvious cheating that's cause for some sort of suspension or action by the LPGA.

Agreed.  If there was no ill-intent, then what, exactly, should she be reprimanded for?

Also, @Lihu , your comment about the rules not caring about intent is not entirely true.  There are some rules that are based on intent.

[turtleback]

I've moved a ball on a few occasions to avoid goose shit, and didn't self-assess any penalties... Hopefully that doesn't make me a low life scumbag

If you did it in a tournament or other competition that is exactly what it means, because it does not just affect you it affects everyone in the tournament or competition.  By entering you acknowledged, implicitly or explicitly, a voluntary commitment to play by the rules.  If you do not and refuse to accept responsibility for your actions then that seems like  textbook example of cheating.

If you did it in a casual round that you are't posting for handicap then it just means you did not choose to play by the rules and no one really cares because it doesn't affect anyone besides you.  It does not make you a cheater because you had no commitment to play by the rules.

In the case at hand, there is a  presumption that someone playing in a professional tournament intends and is committed to play by the rules.  If they do not and refuse to accept responsibility for their breach then it is hard to justify a softer word than cheating, IMO.

[Lihu]

You're contradicting yourself. If she broke a rule with no ill-intent, then she should be DQ'd and that's all. Shouldn't be punished beyond that for an accident.

It's the obvious cheating that's cause for some sort of suspension or action by the LPGA.

No contradiction.

I think her intent was not ill at the time of the infraction, but her reaction towards the ruling.

Agreed.  If there was no ill-intent, then what, exactly, should she be reprimanded for?

Also, @Lihu , your comment about the rules not caring about intent is not entirely true.  There are some rules that are based on intent.

Rules are rules. If you make the infraction by accident or not you broke it.

The intent of the rules is to catch purposeful cheating, but it sometimes catches carelessness and some accidents.

Of course you can argue that some "accidents" are questionable.

In this case, I think she did not mark and place incorrectly with the intent to improve her lie. That would be plain stupid. The issue I have is with her reaction towards the ruling.

[Golfingdad]

No contradiction. I think her intent was not ill at the time of the infraction, but her reaction towards the ruling. Rules are rules. If you make the infraction by accident or not you broke it. The intent of the rules is to catch purposeful cheating, but it sometimes catches carelessness and some accidents. Of course you can argue that some "accidents" are questionable. In this case, I think she did not mark and place incorrectly with the intent to improve her lie. That would be plain stupid. The issue I have is with her reaction towards the ruling.

What's your basis for thinking the replacement of the ball 4 cm to the left was inadvertent? I don't see how that is at all possible (the way she did it, with the ball never moving away from the original spot more than where she ultimately left it) for a human being with a functioning brain.

[Lihu]

What's your basis for thinking the replacement of the ball 4 cm to the left was inadvertent? I don't see how that is at all possible (the way she did it, with the ball never moving away from the original spot more than where she ultimately left it) for a human being with a functioning brain.

Was it really 4cm? The distance seems to be growing.

In all honesty, I am not sure why she's using a huge marker like that.

I did an experiment where I placed the ball at the edge of my reach in roughly the same body position. Then when I tried to replace it in the same position I would have lost my balance.

Hypothetically, if she was pissed that she just missed a birdie putt and lipped out 1 foot, and she was tired and lazy then she might be prone to place the ball in still on the marker but where she can do it comfortably. The thinking is probably that the net outcome would not matter because no one misses a 1 footer.

Remember that I am not excusing her behavior at all, neither during the action nor the act of WD and not signing her card. The only thing I would change is title of this thread which I think should read "Chella Choi breaks the rules and is defiant about the ruling. What is the LPGA doing about it?"

[RJH999]

Was it really 4cm? The distance seems to be growing. ;-) In all honesty, I am not sure why she's using a huge marker like that. I did an experiment where I placed the ball at the edge of my reach in roughly the same body position. Then when I tried to replace it in the same position I would have lost my balance. Hypothetically, if she was pissed that she just missed a birdie putt and lipped out 1 foot, and she was tired and lazy then she might be prone to place the ball in still on the marker but where she can do it comfortably. The thinking is probably that the net outcome would not matter because no one misses a 1 footer. Remember that I am not excusing her behavior at all, neither during the action nor the act of WD and not signing her card. The only thing I would change is title of this thread which I think should read "Chella Choi breaks the rules and is defiant about the ruling. What is the LPGA doing about it?"

Well then again you aren't a 5'6 female pro golfer. Maybe if it was KJ then it would work....:-)

[Lihu]

Well then again you aren't a 5'6 female pro golfer. Maybe if it was KJ then it would work....

Yeah, I'm so glad she doesn't look like me nor KJ.

[iacas]

4cm is about an inch and a half. That's what's been said from the start. The loss of balance thing was already addressed. And she wasn't losing her balance.

[Lihu]

4cm is about an inch and a half. That's what's been said from the start.

The loss of balance thing was already addressed. And she wasn't losing her balance.

Well, my proposition is that she didn't reach over just a tiny bit further to throw herself off balance.

[BuckeyeNut]

She DQ'd herself........................

End of story!

My 2 cents...

[Golfingdad]

She DQ'd herself........................ End of story! My 2 cents...

That's about a quarter of a penny ... At best. :)