2014 Ryder Cup Discussion Thread

[teeitup22]

So Watson picked Mahan, Simpson, and Bradley as captain picks. Who would have been better options? Kirk, Billy H, but the injuries to Tiger and Dufner hurt just as much as Watson's captain picks.

[ChrisP]

I agree, the quality of golf was quite lopsided in favor of Europe, but we all know that golf is as much mental as it is physical.  Watson imo did nothing to rally the team to help them overcome talent deficit.   While Webb, Watson, Bradley and Johnson were outplayed, Watson made very poor decisions as captain.

I think Phil and others are finally speaking their minds about their displeasure with the way Watson acted as captain.

I'd like to see Larry Nelson or Couples as next Captain.

I think Nelson's too old. Couples vs. Clarke would be great. I think they're two great minds and they're two guys I think the guys would play really hard for. Plus, Couples is good friends with Azinger and would prolly use his formula, and he's more of a player's captain. He knows how to win. He's done it before on the Presidents side. Plus you'll likely have Tiger back next RC and Couples knows how to handle him.

[ChrisP]

So Watson picked Mahan, Simpson, and Bradley as captain picks. Who would have been better options? Kirk, Billy H, but the injuries to Tiger and Dufner hurt just as much as Watson's captain picks.

Kirk and Billy H would have been better options IF the picks were after the BMW or TOUR Championship. At the time the picks were made, they really hadn't done much to be much more than a blip on the radar.

[teeitup22]

Webb only played two matches and halved against a guy who was 4-0-0 in singles, so I'll give him at least that. I thought Bubba played really bad and Rickie had a terrible last two matches. I also thought Keegan played very poor despite a good last few holes on day one.

Today was winnable, though. There were matches out there that we could have won and given ourselves a chance. If Spieth wins that first match and Furyk and Mahan don't choke as bad as they did, it changes things. Those 3 matches today were most disappointing.

Spieth was going up against Mcdowell who I think is nearly unbeatable it seems. I don't know who we have on the U.S. team that could have beat him. Maybe Reed or Phil? My point is you can't place blame on Spieth who is a 21 year old rookie. Furyk and Mahan were disappointing, but again they both went up against world class players.

[mvmac]

Faldo just said Europe was -110 (or something close to that) under par while USA was -78 for all the matches. Pods or not, Europe played better.

I think Phil and others are finally speaking their minds about their displeasure with the way Watson acted as captain.

I'd like to see Larry Nelson or Couples as next Captain.

I agree Watson made some bad decisions. I also like that someone is bringing up Azinger and the pods system. It doesn't guarantee a win but it's what they do in President's Cups and similar to what Europe does.

I just don't think the right place to do it is in a press conference in front of your captain who is a well respected "elder statesman" in the game of golf. Just not a good PR move.

[teeitup22]

Can anyone enlighten me on what this 'pods' system is? I keep hearing about it, but must've missed the details.

[newtogolf]

I agree Watson made some bad decisions. I also like that someone is bringing up Azinger and the pods system. It doesn't guarantee a win but it's what they do in President's Cups and similar to what Europe does.

I don't think the right place to do it was in a press conference in front of your captain who is a well respected "elder statesman" in the game of golf. Just not a good PR move.

I get what you're saying but I'm getting real sick of PC, so I find Phil's honesty refreshing.  Watson is a great elder statesman but that doesn't make him immune from being criticized for doing a crap job as RC captain.  The truth hurts sometimes, Watson and others need to accept the criticism and learn from it if we're going to change the results.

[Mr. Desmond]

As pointed out earlier, alternate shot was 7-1 in Europe's favor. I don't who has analyzed those pairings or whether those pairings were complementary.

3 Points -- that is what the USA needed.

When you are talking 3 points, the Captain can make a difference even if the other team has better talent. We see it all the time in team sports. The team that plays better as a team can beat better talent.

Watson?

At some point, people stop learning ... the "want to" goes away. They do things according to their thinking, which may be outmoded.

All I know is that when you lose 8 of 10 and keep on doing the same thing every two years, expect to lose unless you've got better talent. If you stay still, if you do not evolve, you lose.

Azinger had the PODS system. It worked to some extent and stemmed the Euro tide. Why did the other guys not use it? Because of ego .... they ceased to embrace new knowledge. Their way was the way ... I heard the old sayings that Watson uttered... utter crap... old thinking. Old thinking works when you have amassed better talent and the coach does not matter.

The USA needs to embrace new methods of partnering and obtain some knowledge of how to pair in alternate shot competition.

Whatever the USA is doing, from ignorance, is not working. Evolve or die.

[Chilli Dipper]

Faldo just said Europe was -110 (or something close to that) under par while USA was -78 for all the matches. Pods or not, Europe played better.

Indeed, they did, but the post-mortem for this Ryder Cup should not be that it was a lost cause from the start. The U.S. team that prevailed at Valhalla was far less talented than this squad; the 2010 team was similarly outmatched, yet it still managed to take the Europeans to the wire. This should not have been a blowout.

[atb5079]

Few things:

1) Apart from all our bitching and moaning (myself included), lets congratulate Europe. They were flat out better and won this. They had better players who played better with better chemistry and they care more.

2) Hazeltine in 2 years we need some changes. We need an overall confidence and moxie to this team starting with the captain. I want Freddie or Johnny Miller. A guy who has some swagger and confidence and even controversy. No more tail between the legs "well maybe we could win if we do this and that". I want a captain who knows we can win.

3) Our young guys showed that moxie this week. I dont like Reed but RC I am a fan. Speith (apart from today) had that moxie and shows he can play this thing. Even quiet Jimmy Walker was fired up and didnt seem like pressure got to him. We need more youth and more confidence. **** Bubba because he hates Euro soil and is all me me me. I want Reed, Speith, Jimmy, Horschel, DJ, Dufner and a healthy Tiger on this next team. Youth with some experienced guys. Rickie is still a head scratcher but I think another year under Butch and he really can take his game to the next level; just the stuff in between the ears he needs to work on.

4) Europe loves this event and the players are all close friends. We need that on the US side. Couples or Miller or even Phil and Tiger need to unite these guys. Bring about camaraderie and teamwork. Also they need to wipe the slate clean. Not think about history at the RC, but realize this next one is on American soil and they have youth.

[mvmac]

Can anyone enlighten me on what this 'pods' system is? I keep hearing about it, but must've missed the details.

http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/his-new-book-paul-azinger-reveals-key-pieces-his-strategy-helped-us-team-capture-ryder

[AmazingWhacker]

Personally - I can't see how this is Tom Watson's fault . . .

It was lopsided to begin with.  The US veterans under-performed.  Tom Watson had no viable picks he could've made.  When people are talking about Kevin Na as a potential pick . .it's not looking good for you to win the cup.

in my hierarchy of blame, I list:

1.  The US players - it was totally lopsided going in.

2.  The injuries to several of what should've been our strongest players

3.  Embarrassing performances by the US Vets.

4.  Kevin Na . .I'm not totally sure how he fits in here but I'm sure he's at least partially culpable.

5.  The ugly clothes worn by both sides

and, finally,

6.  Tom Watson not having some magic strategy capable of beating a much superior team.  Like, you know, if a high school football team played against and NFL team . .with the proper coaching strategy the high school team could very well pull it off.

[Spitfisher]

As pointed out earlier, alternate shot was 7-1 in Europe's favor. I don't who has analyzed those pairings or whether those pairings were complementary.

3 Points -- that is what the USA needed.

When you are talking 3 points, the Captain can make a difference even if the other team has better talent. We see it all the time in team sports. The team that plays better as a team can beat better talent.

Watson?

At some point, people stop learning ... the "want to" goes away. They do things according to their thinking, which may be outmoded.

All I know is that when you lose 8 of 10 and keep on doing the same thing every two years, expect to lose unless you've got better talent. If you stay still, if you do not evolve, you lose.

Azinger had the PODS system. It worked to some extent and stemmed the Euro tide. Why did the other guys not use it? Because of ego .... they ceased to embrace new knowledge. Their way was the way ... I heard the old sayings that Watson uttered... utter crap... old thinking. Old thinking works when you have amassed better talent and the coach does not matter.

The USA needs to embrace new methods of partnering and obtain some knowledge of how to pair in alternate shot competition.

Whatever the USA is doing, from ignorance, is not working. Evolve or die.

My golf partner said aternate shote touneys can be quite popular in europe...here not so much.

[Infamous 273]

Can anyone enlighten me on what this 'pods' system is? I keep hearing about it, but must've missed the details.

From an article published a few hours ago on Yahoo: Azinger guided the American team to a 16.5-11.5 win over captain Nick Faldo and the Europeans six years ago at Valhalla in Kentucky. He employed what he called a Pod system, creating three groups of four players based on personality types that bonded, practiced and played together throughout the matches.

[ChrisP]

Indeed, they did, but the post-mortem for this Ryder Cup should not be that it was a lost cause from the start. The U.S. team that prevailed at Valhalla was far less talented than this squad; the 2010 team was similarly outmatched, yet it still managed to take the Europeans to the wire. This should not have been a blowout.

The Euro team in 2008 wasn't all that great that year, either. No where near the talent of this team. Guys like McDowell, Rose, Stenson, Garcia and Westwood are much better players now than they were then and more experienced.

[Silent]

My golf partner said aternate shote touneys can be quite popular in europe...here not so much.

This year I played three amateur tournaments, all alternate shot. So I guess you are right. (btw I suck, but that's beside the point)

[Spitfisher]

So Watson picked Mahan, Simpson, and Bradley as captain picks. Who would have been better options? Kirk, Billy H, but the injuries to Tiger and Dufner hurt just as much as Watson's captain picks.

I can see you point, but Tiger would have been a stretch at best. 7 tourneys and one one top 25. and besides his RC is not nearly as remarkable as his tour career. I would have entered Dustin Johnson  as a possible pick if he was available instead of tiger above.

[Wansteadimp]

My golf partner said aternate shote touneys can be quite popular in europe...here not so much.

In the UK a lot of amateur team matches (club v club, county v county) at all age groups will be 18 hole 4somes matchplay in the morning & 18 hole singles matchplay in the afternoon.

Also a lot of the older clubs will have a 4somes knockout as the mains pairs competition, so British players will get a lot of exposure to 4somes.