Patrick Reed's Homophobic Outburst

[iacas]

Saying something to yourself is a better judge of your own character than what you say to others.

I don't agree.

I will often speak more harshly to myself than I would ever even think to say to someone else. I'm a big boy. I can handle it, and there's no misinterpreting the intent when I speak to myself.

I don't call myself a "faggot" but I will berate my intelligence, work ethic, attitude, and other various things on the rare occasion I feel I deserve to give myself a verbal (not always audible) beatdown.

Which brings me back to the my original point.

If I called myself a "fat faggot nigger" that would be funny, would it?

The point is that the words are designed as a slur.

If you were a rotund homosexual black male, probably not.

Plus, in England, a "fag" is a cigarette. Obviously I'm not suggesting that Reed was calling himself a cigarette (not at all), but words have different meanings in different cultures.

The intent matters a little, as does the target. In this case, we can't know the intent except to assume it was to berate himself, and the target was himself.

Both severely lessen the outrage I'm prepared to heave in PReed's general direction.

[Shorty]

Plus, in England, a "fag" is a cigarette. Obviously I'm not suggesting that Reed was calling himself a cigarette (not at all), but words have different meanings in different cultures.

Oh come now!

Kids at school say a faggot is a bundle of sticks, too.

His intent, however misguided or ill-thought was to think of a huge insult.

We now, in most places, (perhaps) live in a culture where homosexuality is OK, not something to be condemned for.

I don't think Reed is necessarily homophobic, but he does need a PR lesson.

[Ernest Jones]

I don't think Reed is necessarily homophobic, but he does need a PR lesson.

That's exactly my position and many others in this thread as well.

[9424tm]

I don't agree. I will often speak more harshly to myself than I would ever even think to say to someone else. I'm a big boy. I can handle it, and there's no misinterpreting the intent when I speak to myself. I don't call myself a "faggot" but I will berate my intelligence, work ethic, attitude, and other various things on the rare occasion I feel I deserve to give myself a verbal (not always audible) beatdown.

Let me clarify. Your thoughts and words to yourself *about* others are better judge of character . In other words, one may think something about someone that they would never dream of saying. I think Reed is simply a product of his generation and culture. Said something dumb and regrets it. Does he think homosexuals can't putt? I doubt it. No need for his career to be harmed.

[iacas]

His intent, however misguided or ill-thought was to think of a huge insult.

We now, in most places, (perhaps) live in a culture where homosexuality is OK, not something to be condemned for.

I don't think Reed is necessarily homophobic, but he does need a PR lesson.

No disagreement there, but the fact remains that words mean different things.

We learned from Tiger Woods a few years ago that you can't call yourself "a spaz" either. Remember that? As Americans we never really associated that word with some kind of disease. To us it meant a kid freaking out because of a sugar high or something (not that sugar highs are real).

But say the word in the UK and, well, it's bad. I'm not saying "faggot" means different things, but the level of disgust when someone directs it at himself can vary somewhat.

Let me clarify. Your thoughts and words to yourself *about* others are better judge of character . In other words, one may think something about someone that they would never dream of saying.

It's probably still a stretch to say he was talking "about" others. He wasn't thinking to himself "Gosh darn I hate them faggots." He called himself a name, one with some alliteration. One could argue, too, that perhaps he should have done MORE thinking (and less speaking)… :P

[Golfingdad]

It's probably still a stretch to say he was talking "about" others.

Agree.  If I'm here at work (or on the golf course) and do something really stupid, my insult dujour is usually likely to be either:

"you f*cking idiot," you f*cking moron," or "you f*cking retard."

In all three cases, my intent is identical.  In one of the cases, I would have unfortunately let an offensive word slip out, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself or what I did.  And it certainly has nothing to do with how I feel about people with disabilities.

[newtogolf]

It's probably still a stretch to say he was talking "about" others. He wasn't thinking to himself "Gosh darn I hate them faggots." He called himself a name, one with some alliteration. One could argue, too, that perhaps he should have done MORE thinking (and less speaking)… :P

Agree.  If I'm here at work (or on the golf course) and do something really stupid, my insult dujour is usually likely to be either:

"you f*cking idiot," you f*cking moron," or "you f*cking retard."

In all three cases, my intent is identical.  In one of the cases, I would have unfortunately let an offensive word slip out, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself or what I did.  And it certainly has nothing to do with how I feel about people with disabilities.

I think these posts sum it up pretty well.  I think it's a bit ironic that no one seemed concerned that he dropped the f bomb multiple times, I guess f*ck isn't that offensive anymore.

[Ernest Jones]

Agree.  If I'm here at work (or on the golf course) and do something really stupid, my insult dujour is usually likely to be either:

"you f*cking idiot," you f*cking moron," or "you f*cking retard."

In all three cases, my intent is identical.  In one of the cases, I would have unfortunately let an offensive word slip out, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself or what I did.  And it certainly has nothing to do with how I feel about people with disabilities.

I usually just call you Barney...

[No Mulligans]

Agree.  If I'm here at work (or on the golf course) and do something really stupid, my insult dujour is usually likely to be either:

"you f*cking idiot," you f*cking moron," or "you f*cking retard."

In all three cases, my intent is identical.  In one of the cases, I would have unfortunately let an offensive word slip out, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself or what I did.  And it certainly has nothing to do with how I feel about people with disabilities.

Just like if I was to say:

"You dirty dog," You scaredy-cat," "You're chicken"

Certainly has nothing to with how I feel about dogs, cats or chickens.

[rb72]

While I see this as a positive thread because open and honest discussion of these topics should never be seen as a bad thing, the irony here is that if this were a discussion involving celebrities and politicians subject to media scrutiny, about a half dozen people here would be losing their jobs, including Shorty who has used a word which, unless he is actually black (and he may be, I don’t know) is absolutely taboo keeping in mind that  in the realm of political correctness CONTEXT DOESN’T MATTER! BTW, Shorty, I disagree with your assertion that his intent was to “think of a huge insult”. He didn’t have to think at all. The insult was instinctual, a reflex. Men in this country have grown up using that word to imply “you’re weak and I’m not” for as long as I can remember and it’s still going on today and it will be going on for some time. In fact , if history is any indicator it may never stop. As Newtogolf points out there was a time when the words that could not be spoken were f**K, s**t, b***h, …etc. but those words are only becoming more and more ubiquitous in today’s media. It’s almost as if we’ve waved the white flag on that one because you can’t stop people (real people, not celebrities) from talking the way they want to talk but we’re certainly going to try by having as many public figures fired as we possibly can and once everyone in the world has lost their job because they said something that was interpreted by someone as offensive the world will be a much better place, I’m sure.

[Shorty]

Shorty who has used a word which, unless he is actually black (and he may be, I don’t know) is absolutely taboo

What absolute nonsense.

The word "nigger" is a hateful word that people realise must not be used.

That does not mean that "white" people are not allowed to use it as an example of how powerful and destructive language can be.

You need to look at the context. And in a PC world, context means everything, despite what you assert. My point was that "faggot" is pretty much in the same category as"nigger, but many if not most heterosexuals seem to think it's OK to use it as a slur because it doesn't offend them.

And I continue to read this in this thread.

[Golfingdad]

You need to look at the context. And in a PC world, context means everything, despite what you assert.

I agree.

What would you describe as the "context" of Reed's comment?

[Shorty]

I agree.

What would you describe as the "context" of Reed's comment?

Basically this:

Most young men grow up in a culture where machismo and being "one of the boys" is part of belonging.

They learn certain phrases and don't apply a lot of meaning to them, and consequently  they can say quite horrendous things without actually even knowing what they are saying, let alone thinking or believing they are being offensive.

But.....as we grow a little older we educate ourselves or, in Reed's case are educated about what we are saying and we learn not to do it.

He is old enough to have known better, but I doubt he'll say it again.

Whether microphones are around or not, it shouldn't matter.

Heterosexuals don't get to decide what offends the gay community. That's not political correctness. That's arrogance and ignorance of the worst type.

[inthehole]

I simply don't care IN THE CONTEXT of Reed defaming himself with that comment regarding his poor play.     If he used those words in response to someone else, OBVIOUSLY that would be a problem to any reasonable minded person.     Comon already Shorty ... you're grasping at straws on this one - best to pick your battles.

[Shorty]

I simply don't care IN THE CONTEXT of Reed defaming himself with that comment regarding his poor play.   If he used those words in response to someone else, OBVIOUSLY that would be a problem to any reasonable minded person.     Comon already Shorty ... you're grasping at straws on this one - best to pick your battles.

You aren't that great at looking at the big picture, are you? We are talking about a societal problem, not one man's poor choice of self admonishment.

[Ernest Jones]

[QUOTE name="Golfingdad" url="/t/78043/patrick-reeds-homophobic-outburst-many-dont-care-why/54#post_1074024"]   I agree. :beer: What would you describe as the "context" of Reed's comment? [/QUOTE] Basically this: Most young men grow up in a culture where machismo and being "one of the boys" is part of belonging. They learn certain phrases and don't apply a lot of meaning to them, and consequently  they can say quite horrendous things without actually even knowing what they are saying, let alone thinking or believing they are being offensive. But.....as we grow a little older we educate ourselves or, in Reed's case are educated about what we are saying and we learn not to do it. He is old enough to have known better, but I doubt he'll say it again. Whether microphones are around or not, it shouldn't matter. Heterosexuals don't get to decide what offends the gay community. That's not political correctness. That's arrogance and ignorance of the worst type.

I agree 100% Now why the hell didn't you say that in the first place?

[Golfingdad]

Basically this:

Most young men grow up in a culture where machismo and being "one of the boys" is part of belonging.

They learn certain phrases and don't apply a lot of meaning to them, and consequently  they can say quite horrendous things without actually even knowing what they are saying, let alone thinking or believing they are being offensive.

But.....as we grow a little older we educate ourselves or, in Reed's case are educated about what we are saying and we learn not to do it.

He is old enough to have known better, but I doubt he'll say it again.

Whether microphones are around or not, it shouldn't matter.

Heterosexuals don't get to decide what offends the gay community. That's not political correctness. That's arrogance and ignorance of the worst type.

Yes, I can agree with this.  And going with a style you used a few weeks ago ...

This is always true, but hopefully times are changing to the point that being gay or perceived as such won't exclude them.

Hit the nail on the head here.  And this is the crux of why it's easy for me to "forgive" him.  Since he likely didn't really consider what he was saying, he wasn't intending on hurting anybody.

Then that means he learned from it.  I hope you're right.  Good for him.

Agreed.

[rb72]

What absolute nonsense.

The word "nigger" is a hateful word that people realise must not be used.

That does not mean that "white" people are not allowed to use it as an example of how powerful and destructive language can be.

You need to look at the context. And in a PC world, context means everything, despite what you assert. My point was that "faggot" is pretty much in the same category as"nigger, but many if not most heterosexuals seem to think it's OK to use it as a slur because it doesn't offend them.

And I continue to read this in this thread.

Tell that to Paula Dean!!!!