Shoulder Turn & Balance

[iacas]

  natureboy said:

Many in this forum seem to imply he was a 'phone it in' author using a ghost writer.

You seem to have an odd definition of "many." I think it's been said once or twice, and that's been about it.

  natureboy said:

I think that's a bit insulting to Hogan's knowledge and seriousness as a student/teacher of the golf swing. If there is a discrepancy between what is written and what he appears to do, I would default to a 'That's interesting, why is that?" mode, rather than a somewhat dismissive, "He didn't know what he was actually doing so ignore what he wrote".

Who has said that?

Look, at the risk of veering off-topic for a post here, nobody is doing what you're suggesting. However, I and others have pointed out that Hogan did things differently than how his feels are interpreted by others. For example, Hogan "felt" he "bumped then turned" on the downswing, when in fact he slid his hips forward a LOT farther than almost everyone would call a "bump." So… great, listen to Hogan say "bump" but know what he actually DID when he felt "bump" as his reality (his feels) may not align with your own.

  natureboy said:

For me, at least, Hogan's intentions from his writings are clues to help fill in the gaps.

Hogan's swing was just one swing. There are a lot out there. He was neither the best golfer nor the best instructor out there, nor is everyone built to swing like Ben Hogan. Ben's swing worked for him. Fill in the gaps all you want, but at the end of the day you've still studied one swing which may or may not be suited to you. I encourage a wider view, a wider net, and more freedom to do things a bit differently than Ben Hogan.

[natureboy]

  iacas said:

You seem to have an odd definition of "many." I think it's been said once or twice, and that's been about it.

Who has said that?

Look, at the risk of veering off-topic for a post here, nobody is doing what you're suggesting. However, I and others have pointed out that Hogan did things differently than how his feels are interpreted by others. For example, Hogan "felt" he "bumped then turned" on the downswing, when in fact he slid his hips forward a LOT farther than almost everyone would call a "bump." So… great, listen to Hogan say "bump" but know what he actually DID when he felt "bump" as his reality (his feels) may not align with your own.

Hogan's swing was just one swing. There are a lot out there. He was neither the best golfer nor the best instructor out there, nor is everyone built to swing like Ben Hogan. Ben's swing worked for him. Fill in the gaps all you want, but at the end of the day you've still studied one swing which may or may not be suited to you. I encourage a wider view, a wider net, and more freedom to do things a bit differently than Ben Hogan.

Probably at least 3 times forum-wide on recent threads. That it was said at all was pretty shocking to me.

I agree Hogan's was just one swing. I've pored over it closely, but not exclusively. I don't try to mimic his swing, but understand what he was trying to do and see how it works when I apply the idea with my own body. If I thought his writing was the sum total of all golf knowledge, I wouldn't be on this forum. I do respect his seriousness and studiousness as a player and teacher, though.

Those exact words may not have actually been used, but the implication comes through pretty clear.

If you don't think he initially loaded right this is a hard one to accept: he bumped to get to the left side; his grounded turn then pushed his left hip even further left. The single 'feel' of 'turn' once the left foot / leg was planted created the further 'real' lateral hip thrust. Granted those feels probably work best with (and IMO help clarify) his approach in concert with film and pictures.

[mvmac]

  None said:

  natureboy said:

I agree Hogan's was just one swing. I've pored over it closely, but not exclusively. I don't try to mimic his swing, but understand what he was trying to do and see how it works when I apply the idea with my own body. If I thought his writing was the sum total of all golf knowledge, I wouldn't be on this forum. I do respect his seriousness and studiousness as a player and teacher, though.

Those exact words may not have actually been used, but the implication comes through pretty clear.

If you don't think he initially loaded right this is a hard one to accept: he bumped to get to the left side; his grounded turn then pushed his left hip even further left. The single 'feel' of 'turn' once the left foot / leg was planted created the further 'real' lateral hip thrust. Granted those feels probably work best with (and IMO help clarify) his approach in concert with film and pictures.

The point is to not take what was written as "law", it's more important to look at what he (and other great players) did.

Let's get back to the topic now please. It's not 100% Hogan. Thank you.

[jmanbooyaa]

I am having tremendous trouble with the shoulder turn aspect. I have taken a few lessons recently and I am very frustraed as I can't make the turn. I constantly dip my left side and am not shifting my weight to the right.

[billchao]

  jmanbooyaa said:

I am having tremendous trouble with the shoulder turn aspect. I have taken a few lessons recently and I am very frustraed as I can't make the turn. I constantly dip my left side and am not shifting my weight to the right.

You should start a swing thread. It's hard to tell what is actually happening from what a person feels is happening.

For example, plenty of people feel a weight shift to the right when they sway to the right in the backswing, so when they learn to pivot correctly, they feel less "weight" on that side.

[jmanbooyaa]

I will try to upload my swing from my lesson. Good point hard to describe my front shoulder dipping forward towards to the ball on my back swing and not able to get to right side. Will try to upload later or tomorrow.

[iacas]

  jmanbooyaa said:

I will try to upload my swing from my lesson. Good point hard to describe my front shoulder dipping forward towards to the ball on my back swing and not able to get to right side. Will try to upload later or tomorrow.

FWIW, your shoulder is supposed to do that. You may be OVER-doing it. But it should go down to the ball during the backswing.

[mvmac]

  iacas said:

FWIW, your shoulder is supposed to do that. You may be OVER-doing it. But it should go down to the ball during the backswing.

Check it out @jmanbooyaa

[jmanbooyaa]

Thanks for the video. The head moving could very well be what is making me sway forward on the back swing. Will try and get a video up. My lesson video is more talking and me just at set up than a swing.

[jmanbooyaa]

Again thanks for the responses.