Looking for a simple and repeatable swing pattern

[RussUK]

Hi All, I have been playing on and off for about 4 years due to injury and kids.

I am now looking to try a swing pattern that is easy to learn (as easy as can be expected), repeatable and easy to maintain as i dont have huge amounts of spare time.

I have tried Stack and Tilt last year and started ok but couldn't get my head round it (it was one of may aims this year to try it again).

I have looked at a number of other methods and wondered if anyone has advice?

I have looked at the Single Axis swing (by Kurt Junge)

the reverse K setup

Stack and tilt

What would you advise?

Thanks in advance

[saevel25]

Hi All, I have been playing on and off for about 4 years due to injury and kids.

I am now looking to try a swing pattern that is easy to learn (as easy as can be expected), repeatable and easy to maintain as i dont have huge amounts of spare time.

I think this is a confusion many people get. Golf is a very complex movement. I don't care how many times people say they have a simple swing theory. The golf swing is a complex movement. It is a very unnatural movement for the human body.

Depending on you, learning a golf swing might be easy or hard. There is no secret to the golf swing. No one system or one style. Each golfer has their own small details that make them unique.

That being said, I am a big follower of the 5SK, http://thesandtrap.com/t/55426/introducing-five-simple-keys

Basically some really smart people in the golf industry has done the research and found 5 things all good golfers do. They ordered them into 5 keys. The concept is to work on each one. As you progress you will be a better ball striker. It is a very intuitive concept. It doesn't try to mold you into a specific swing theory. It helps build you as wing around you, because you have to put in the work.

That is were I think when yous say, "Easy to learn", that depends on you and the effort you are willing to put in. I will say this. To change your swing, and develop consistent movements that improves your ball striking takes work. How much work depends on your aptitude.

I say ball striker because that is what you will learn. Actually playing golf, adding in putting, short game, game management, that is a whole another topic.

If you want to look into the 5SK, then I would keep looking at the threads on this forum. There is a lot of free information that are very informative.

You can also start your own My Swing thread and get some specific help on your swing by some very smart people.

http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

http://thesandtrap.com/t/38240/my-swing-video-threads-rules-please-read

If you want to really improve I recommend finding a 5SK instructor and/or sign up for Evolvr (online video based instruction)

http://evolvr.thegolfevolution.com/

[RussUK]

I know 1st hand golf isnt easy (very addictive though and i am obsessed with it). I think what i meant was, is there a method, such as 1 plane swing, stack and tilt etc. that offered a greater margin for error (such as fewer moving parts). I like the idea of weight forward at address and that is tempting me to try stack and tilt. Im just concerned about the spine tilt aspect.

I normally swing conventionally but i struggle with timing in regards to the weight shift which is leading to Fats and slices and is getting a little annoying

[mvmac]

What would you advise?

Thanks in advance

[RussUK]

decisions decisions! I suppose stop slicing is the most important. I started re reading the S&T book and tried it on the range for a half a dozen balls and was hitting straight most of the time which was nice but was still not getting the crisp contact id like.

I had a look at your swing and liked the way you kept centered during the swing which is S&Tish; so i think i may commit to it.

I do struggle with the left shoulder down and side tilt. should i start the backswing by tilting left then rotating the hands in?

[RussUK]

Sorry mvmac, just realised it was a link!

Ill give that a good read through as im sure that will help. As they say its normally something small that causes big problems!

your feedback on the left shoulder down part of S&T would be appreciated, must be the way im reading it in the book.

Thanks again
Russ

[mvmac]

decisions decisions! I suppose stop slicing is the most important. I started re reading the S&T book and tried it on the range for a half a dozen balls and was hitting straight most of the time which was nice but was still not getting the crisp contact id like.

For more sustainable improvement I would move away from "trying" swings and stick with working on a priority piece. Basically what part of your swing is causing the most problems and/or hurting your ballstriking the most.

I do struggle with the left shoulder down and side tilt. should i start the backswing by tilting left then rotating the hands in?

I don't think I've ever seen your swing so I'm hesitant to give you an answer. Not everyone is going to feel the same thing. We've seen players get into some bad habits by just feeling like they left tilt to start the backswing. A lot of the "tilt" is coming from the hips/motion of the lower body.

Does your head move more than a couple inches right on the backswing?

Do you struggle with getting your left shoulder "under" your chin on the backswing?

Feel free to start a thread here

http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

[WUTiger]

... I had a look at your swing and liked the way you kept centered during the swing which is S&Tish; so i think i may commit to it. ...

Stack&Tilt; is good in that it encourages you to put weight forward and stay centered over the ball. People who use it often are really good from 7i through wedges, but tend to have trouble with the longer clubs.

I had a lesson back in 1978 from an English pro that lived in Missouri (USA). He had very much a S&T approach to the swing. (I was impressed, and still have notes from the lessons). But, I had trouble sometimes getting my drives and FWs airborne.

A swing system actually called S&T became prominent about 2005 (?), and got a boost from a 2009 Golf Digest article, Six Steps to Stack & Tilt .I tried to apply the S&T Six Steps, but had a repeat of my 1978 problems with low-pull error on longer clubs.

In the St. Louis area, I never found any pros who claimed to teach pure S&T.; The two who used some S&T principles said they used "primitive" S&T or "modified" S&T both said they found pure S&T caused problems with longer clubs.

If you go with the Five Keys, and tap into Lowest Score Wins, I think you can find your golf swing. (Everyone has a swing inside - it's just a matter of finding it.)

[Patch]

Going off here from the norm, but you might want to read up on the Natural Golf swing, and grip. Read up on Moe Norman's version, not the newer versions some folks peddling. It's definitely a stretch from the normal teaching of golf, but it is recognized by the PGA as viable swing. . Peter Fox has a book out, that explains it pretty well. I have golfed with quite a few "Natural Golfers" and they score pretty well using that method.

One of the draw backs to using the NG grip, and swing, is that your clubs have to be more up right than regular golf clubs. So if you have regular golf swing clubs you might not be able to use them. It's my opinion that there is fewer things to focus on with the NG swing.

Why don't I use it? Because I took up golf, and learned the more accepted, normal golf swing before I knew about the NG swing. That said, after a recent  lie angle adjustment, my clubs are now 2.5 degrees up right, and when using the NG grip, the ball flies pretty well for me Just not as well as my regular golf swing. Just an FYI.

The swing teaching that I use is by Manuel de la Torre.  It's a pretty easy swing method use and learn.

[RussUK]

For more sustainable improvement I would move away from "trying" swings and stick with working on a priority piece. Basically what part of your swing is causing the most problems and/or hurting your ballstriking the most.

Mike you are absolutly right with the above and your candid advice got me thinking about when i last played well and it was over a year ago when i started implemeting some of the S&T principles, however due to an absence from the game i lost sight of these.

So i sat down last night and wrote a plan of action with themain aim of regaining that feeling i had and start enjoying the game again.

So my 2 main points to fix are:

1. to stop dipping on the backswing by working on the side tilt.

2. to stop the fat shots by working on getting the weight forward by starting with a exagerated forward weight at address and reducing this until the point i stop hitting it well. Hopefullythis will help me find my ideal setup and stop the dreaed fats and bad ball flight

I don't think I've ever seen your swing so I'm hesitant to give you an answer. Not everyone is going to feel the same thing. We've seen players get into some bad habits by just feeling like they left tilt to start the backswing. A lot of the "tilt" is coming from the hips/motion of the lower body.

Does your head move more than a couple inches right on the backswing?

Do you struggle with getting your left shoulder "under" your chin on the backswing?

Feel free to start a thread here

http://thesandtrap.com/f/4180/member-swings

This is something i feel i would benefit from so i will get my swing filmed once the bad weather here improves.

Just like to say thaniks to all the memebers who have offered their advice. Very glad i joined this site.

[iacas]

So i sat down last night and wrote a plan of action with themain aim of regaining that feeling i had and start enjoying the game again.

So my 2 main points to fix are:

1. to stop dipping on the backswing by working on the side tilt.

2. to stop the fat shots by working on getting the weight forward by starting with a exagerated forward weight at address and reducing this until the point i stop hitting it well. Hopefullythis will help me find my ideal setup and stop the dreaed fats and bad ball flight

Setting your weight forward at address too much can cause fat shots.

The golfer (you), in trying not to stick the club in the ground (even after good contact), to get the proper height on the ball, etc. will often tip BACK if their head or weight get too far forward, or throw their wrist angles out faster, or both in an attempt to "fix the fix" if you know what I mean.

I advise not setting your weight forward too much at setup, rather, working on Key #2 stuff - getting your weight forward dynamically during the swing itself.

[RussUK]

I advise not setting your weight forward too much at setup, rather, working on Key #2 stuff - getting your weight forward dynamically during the swing itself.

So something like 60-40 distribution to start with, would that be ok or just stick to 50-50?

By getting the weight forward dynamically i take it that wouldbe the "hip thrust" move inthe S&T book?

[RussUK]

Hi Erik, just seen a video you posted on youtube (Practice 2014-06-24 example) and found it really imformative, especially the face on view at the start as that showed the address position very well (is your weight slightly forward or are your hips bump towards target a bit?). It also made me wonder if i have been playing the ball too far back for my mid-long irons as i have had them in the centre of my stance.

Its nice to have those sort of visual references to keep in your mind .

By the way, nice practice facilities, i just need to win the lottery now!

[iacas]

So something like 60-40 distribution to start with, would that be ok or just stick to 50-50?

By getting the weight forward dynamically i take it that wouldbe the "hip thrust" move inthe S&T book?

60/40 favoring the left is fine.

Check out this thread:

Hi Erik, just seen a video you posted on youtube (Practice 2014-06-24 example) and found it really imformative, especially the face on view at the start as that showed the address position very well (is your weight slightly forward or are your hips bump towards target a bit?). It also made me wonder if i have been playing the ball too far back for my mid-long irons as i have had them in the centre of my stance.

We're moving the videos in a few days or weeks, but for now, there are a bunch here: http://purestrike5sk.com/videos.php - Key #2 videos for you.

Also, read this:

[No Mulligans]

Hi Russ,

You can get some great advice on this site.  However, to really get good advice you need to post a videos of your swing.  If you start a 'members swing' thread the advice you get will be much more on point.

[mvmac]

So something like 60-40 distribution to start with, would that be ok or just stick to 50-50?

If you go 60-40 left, do it by having the head centered and the hips bumped a little forward, like my example in the draw thread. Don't load or lean left at address.

By getting the weight forward dynamically i take it that wouldbe the "hip thrust" move inthe S&T; book?

More like this.

[RussUK]

We're moving the videos in a few days or weeks, but for now, there are a bunch here: http://purestrike5sk.com/videos.php - Key #2 videos for you.

Also, read this:

The vidoes in the above link were very good, especially the roll your ankles drill. I tried this in front of a mirror and compared it to my normal tranisition. It was clear to see that i was simply just straightening my left knee and rotaring the hips.

As soon as i tried rollingthe ankles i could feel the weight tramsfering better and the hips clearing. Its a very sublte but noticable change.

If you go 60-40 left, do it by having the head centered and the hips bumped a little forward, like my example in the draw thread. Don't load or lean left at address.

Tried this at the same time as rolling my ankles and felt better. Thanks for the great advice Erik/Mike.

On another note the videos were excellent, easy to understand and clear to see what was going on. I find a lot of instructional videos use too much jargon and "waffle" on too much whci affects the attention span but these are spot on. Will these still be accesable once they have been moved?.

Great work guys!

[mvmac]

On another note the videos were excellent, easy to understand and clear to see what was going on. I find a lot of instructional videos use too much jargon and "waffle" on too much whci affects the attention span but these are spot on. Will these still be accesable once they have been moved?.

Yes I think they're just being moved to a different site. You can also find them here but the 5SK site has them listed by Key.