What's the Fix for This Golfer 002?

[EverythingGolf]

The first thing is he over draws the ball, which means his path is too much to the right. With regard's to what misty_mountainhop said about the ball being back in his stance, yes it could cause the ball to draw do to the path moving to the right during the downswing but that would happen more with a long iron since its easier to tilt the spin axis with a long iron then with a short iron. Also short irons require the path to be more out to in (to zero out the path, as close as we can) since we are hitting down on the ball with the irons. I also agree with fixing the grip and getting the foot to bank more to allow the hips to get left and more up at impact, and which it should also help get the path more out to in.

[natureboy]

Doesn't have a 'flying' R elbow - it's ~ 90* to his left arm. But it seems 'late' in compressing down an in to a more elbow leading (pitch elbow?) movement. Possibly an earlier 'bump' to L side will create more room to bring the R elbow down and in, create earlier secondary axis tilt and shallow out his delivery a hair.

Practice this (at 1:59), maybe unless it's contrary to his swing style:

[misty_mountainhop]

The first thing is he over draws the ball, which means his path is too much to the right. With regard's to what misty_mountainhop said about the ball being back in his stance, yes it could cause the ball to draw do to the path moving to the right during the downswing but that would happen more with a long iron since its easier to tilt the spin axis with a long iron then with a short iron. Also short irons require the path to be more out to in (to zero out the path, as close as we can) since we are hitting down on the ball with the irons. I also agree with fixing the grip and getting the foot to bank more to allow the hips to get left and more up at impact, and which it should also help get the path more out to in.

And so? Are you agreeing with my thesis or not? I can't tell from what you've posted!

A ball position too far back is going to give, assuming a club-face square to target at impact, a lot (too much?) draw and a lower than 'typical' trajectory. Failing to square face to target line is going to give the push described.

[EverythingGolf]

And so? Are you agreeing with my thesis or not? I can't tell from what you've posted!

A ball position too far back is going to give, assuming a club-face square to target at impact, a lot (too much?) draw and a lower than 'typical' trajectory. Failing to square face to target line is going to give the push described.

Yes I am agreeing with you, but you would get more of a draw with the long irons and woods.

[iacas]

I would:

- Change his grip. Palmy and weak. High overtaking rate and closure rate.

- Flare left foot to help him turn through on follow through.

- Push left hip up and left of target through impact to keep turning rates up and to stop that sag look after impact. Ball goes higher. Helps control the first thing I mentioned too.

Nailed it IMO.

Many were close. Many weren't terribly close at all. Ball position could go a TEENY bit forward, but not a lot. It's forward of center.

[misty_mountainhop]

Nailed it IMO.

Many were close. Many weren't terribly close at all. Ball position could go a TEENY bit forward, but not a lot. It's forward of center.

Ball forward of centre? Really? What iron was used in this shot?

Weak grip? Really?

Re. the last point that @Phil McGleno makes, out of interest, how is that helping trajectory? To be clear, I'm not trying to be contrary with this one; I'm curious to know the cause and effect there.

[iacas]

Ball forward of centre? Really? What iron was used in this shot?

I think it was a 7-iron. Could have been a 6, but I think it was a 7.

I didn't say it was way forward of center, but it is forward of center slightly. Given his move off the ball, and even his upper center position at impact… yes. It's ever so slightly forward of center.

Some players favor a more forward ball position. Some don't. There's really no "standard" ball position. Move it more forward, given this guy's swing and whatnot, and he's going to have a harder time controlling the face (with his grip), hitting the ball solidly (with his move off the ball), and getting the height and distance he wants (if he continues to move slightly off the ball in the backswing, he'll have to move everything even MORE forward in the downswing, likely resulting in even lower shots).

Weak grip? Really?

Yeah.

Clubface was right-pointing in all of those shots, too. So it's not like if he opened the face it would "look" stronger, if you know what I mean.

Re. the last point that @Phil McGleno makes, out of interest, how is that helping trajectory? To be clear, I'm not trying to be contrary with this one; I'm curious to know the cause and effect there.

It shallows the AoA and adds a bit to clubhead speed.

[Gboroman]

I think the swing in the video is really good.  The ball flight in the video does not look like a push or an over-draw like he is complaining about.  Maybe a slight draw.

I suspect, when he does have a miss, he is getting in a slightly stuck position.  Looks like his body is outracing his arms a little.  He will come too much from the inside and push it with an open (to target) clubface or over-draw it with a square (to target) club face.  Again, I don't think we are seeing the swing in this video that causes his miss, but we get a hint of what happens.

I can see his left hand grip is too weak.  That's probably a compensation for his over-draw, but sometimes results in a push because of his stuck inside angle of approach.

He has a really nice one-piece takeaway, great lag and hip rotation.  I think he should focus on getting his right elbow out in front of his hip a little earlier. Then, he will need to adjust his grip.

[iacas]

I think the swing in the video is really good.  The ball flight in the video does not look like a push or an over-draw like he is complaining about.  Maybe a slight draw.

I suspect, when he does have a miss, he is getting in a slightly stuck position.  Looks like his body is outracing his arms a little.  He will come too much from the inside and push it with an open (to target) clubface or over-draw it with a square (to target) club face.  Again, I don't think we are seeing the swing in this video that causes his miss, but we get a hint of what happens.

His swing is going to look almost identical whether it's a great shot or a miss. You're talking about the face or path changing by 1-3°.

[billchao]

Sweet, partial credit! :dance: Missed the grip thing, though to be honest I've never been good at spotting grip issues.

[Golfingdad]

Sweet, partial credit!

Missed the grip thing, though to be honest I've never been good at spotting grip issues.

One thing I recently learned on here from @iacas and @turtleback is that partial credit should not be given.  A bit Yoda-esque if you ask me ... There is correct, and there is incorrect, there is no partial credit.

FAIL!

[Gboroman]

His swing is going to look almost identical whether it's a great shot or a miss. You're talking about the face or path changing by 1-3°.

Mmmm, I believe and trust practically every posting I've read of yours, but either I'm not understanding what you say, here, or I'm not buying it.  You're not saying he has a virtually identical swing every time are you?  Nor, are you saying his miss is caused by the face or path changing less than 3 degrees, are you?  I was proposing that his miss happens at the times when he exacerbates his swing fault resulting in his face or path definitely changing more than 3 degrees.

[iacas]

Mmmm, I believe and trust practically every posting I've read of yours, but either I'm not understanding what you say, here, or I'm not buying it.  You're not saying he has a virtually identical swing every time are you?

Absolutely, I am saying exactly that. I thought we had a thread on it, but maybe it's just been said often enough that the long-time members "understand" it.

Your swing looks almost exactly the same whether you hit a good shot or a bad shot. Even at 240 FPS. The margins are so small of golf that a horrible shot (say, a thin shot that goes nowhere and low) versus a "flushed" shot is often 1/4" or less.

Nor, are you saying his miss is caused by the face or path changing less than 3 degrees, are you?

Yes. I am.

I was proposing that his miss happens at the times when he exacerbates his swing fault resulting in his face or path definitely changing more than 3 degrees.

No. Not necessary. If he requires a face of 1° and a path of 3° (fairly common with a 6-iron), if his face is 4° he's going to hit a ball that not only pushes quite a bit more than he wants, but then fades .

P.S. That 1° to 4° change highlights another of the ways in which golf has incredibly small margins. 3° can turn a great shot into one that finds the middle of a pond.

[Gboroman]

Absolutely, I am saying exactly that. I thought we had a thread on it, but maybe it's just been said often enough that the long-time members "understand" it.

Your swing looks almost exactly the same whether you hit a good shot or a bad shot. Even at 240 FPS. The margins are so small of golf that a horrible shot (say, a thin shot that goes nowhere and low) versus a "flushed" shot is often 1/4" or less.

Yes. I am.

No. Not necessary. If he requires a face of 1° and a path of 3° (fairly common with a 6-iron), if his face is 4° he's going to hit a ball that not only pushes quite a bit more than he wants, but then fades.

P.S. That 1° to 4° change highlights another of the ways in which golf has incredibly small margins. 3° can turn a great shot into one that finds the middle of a pond.

Thanks, much, Erik for the explanation.  I really enjoy the detail you and others put in the analysis.  It's really a game of fractions, isn't it?

[iacas]

Thanks, much, Erik for the explanation.  I really enjoy the detail you and others put in the analysis.  It's really a game of fractions, isn't it?

Yes. That's part of what makes it so difficult! The first words in chapter 1 of the book in my avatar is "Golf is hard."

And that post is up now: .

[natureboy]

Nailed it IMO.

Many were close. Many weren't terribly close at all. Ball position could go a TEENY bit forward, but not a lot. It's forward of center.

Which hand has the 'weak' grip? I see right hand between neutral and strong. At impact the L hand possibly looks neutral / weak, but he's 'bowing' at that point. It looks like it could be strong-neutral matching his R hand at address.

Or did you mean grip pressure strength?

[iacas]

Or did you mean grip pressure strength?

Nope. The grip is not bordering on strong.

[natureboy]

Nope. The grip is not bordering on strong.

So his L wrist should look more cupped at address or move butt of club down to fingers more?