Grounding Different Club in Hazard.

[Patch]

I with playing with three guys the other day. I did not know them. Just made up the foursome. They were all friends, visiting from Idaho, while enjoying the local warm weather. (78*F)

One of them hit a ball into a bunker. He took two clubs with him. A putter, and a wedge. While in the bunker, he leaned his putter on the edge of the bunker, with the putter head touching the sand. His wedge play out of the bunker, from what I could see, was just fine. (I was in the same bunker) Once we were on the green his buddies insisted he take a penalty because he grounded his putter in the bunker. They were playing for money, and total strokes per hole were important to them. After a little back, and forth, they asked me my opinion. I told them I would call it good, and carry the skin over to the next hole, since I did not know what the rules would say, and he did not ground the club he was using.   I was not part of their skins game.

So what might be the rule in this situation? Was it a penalty?

[ColinL]

There is no penalty for placing  a club, a number of clubs or even a bagful of  clubs in a hazard.  See Exception 1 to Rule 13-4 (I've highlighted the relevant part in red):

Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player  (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling, in removing an obstruction , in measuring or in marking the position of, retrieving, lifting, placing or replacing a ball under any Rule or (b) places his clubs in a hazard .

[David in FL]

Rule 13-4 pertains.  No penalty as Decision 13-4/0.5 explains.

13-4 . Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

Except as provided in the Rules , before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard ) or that, having been lifted from a hazard , may be dropped or placed in the hazard , the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard ;

b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or

c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard .

13-4/0.5

Meaning of "Test the Condition of the Hazard" in Rule 13-4a

Q.What is meant by "test the condition of the hazard" in Rule 13-4a ?

A.The term covers all actions by which the player could gain more informa­tion about the hazard than could be gained from taking his stance for the stroke to be made, bearing in mind that a certain amount of digging in with the feet in the sand or soil is permitted when taking the stance for a stroke.

Examples of actions that would not constitute testing the condition of the hazard include the following:

• digging in with the feet for a stance, including for a practice swing, anywhere in the hazard or in a similar hazard;
• placing an object, such as clubs or a rake, in the hazard;
• leaning on an object (other than a club) such as a rake while it is touching the ground in the hazard or water in a water hazard;
• touching the hazard with an object (other than a club) such as a towel (touching with a club would be a breach of Rule 13-4b ); or
• marking the position of the ball with a tee or otherwise when proceeding under a Rule.

edited to add that Colin beat me to it....

[Rulesman]

Classic pincer movement

[dkolo]

Rule 13-4 pertains.  No penalty as Decision 13-4/0.5 explains.

13-4. Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

Except as provided in the Rules, before making a stroke at a ball that is in a hazard (whether a bunker or a water hazard) or that, having been lifted from a hazard, may be dropped or placed in the hazard, the player must not:

a. Test the condition of the hazard or any similar hazard;

b. Touch the ground in the hazard or water in the water hazard with his hand or a club; or

c. Touch or move a loose impediment lying in or touching the hazard.

13-4/0.5

Meaning of "Test the Condition of the Hazard" in Rule 13-4a

Q.What is meant by "test the condition of the hazard" in Rule 13-4a?

A.The term covers all actions by which the player could gain more informa­tion about the hazard than could be gained from taking his stance for the stroke to be made, bearing in mind that a certain amount of digging in with the feet in the sand or soil is permitted when taking the stance for a stroke.

Examples of actions that would not constitute testing the condition of the hazard include the following:

digging in with the feet for a stance, including for a practice swing, anywhere in the hazard or in a similar hazard;

placing an object, such as clubs or a rake, in the hazard;

leaning on an object (other than a club) such as a rake while it is touching the ground in the hazard or water in a water hazard;

touching the hazard with an object (other than a club) such as a towel (touching with a club would be a breach of Rule 13-4b); or

marking the position of the ball with a tee or otherwise when proceeding under a Rule.

edited to add that Colin beat me to it....

Yeah, I got into an argument about this with a guy this November when I put my other wedge down in the bunker near me (it was a weird distance and I wound up hitting my gap wedge instead of an SW because the sand was pretty hard). Unless you're using the placing of the wedge as a pretext for testing the conditions, it's kosher.

I knew I was right almost immediately afterwards when I marked my ball on the green after my bunker shot and asked him if he wanted the pin in or out for his chip and he said it was illegal to remove the flag if you were off the green. I don't know where these people get this stuff.

[Dormie1360]

Just imagine his consternation if he was in a deep bunker and you offered to hold up the flag over the hole so he could see the flag.

I'm just throwing this in because I don't think a lot of players realize this is an option under the rules.  Just don't get hit by the ball.

17-1 . Flagstick Attended, Removed or Held Up

Before making a stroke from anywhere on the course , the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole .

[newtogolf]

Just imagine his consternation if he was in a deep bunker and you offered to hold up the flag over the hole so he could see the flag.

I'm just throwing this in because I don't think a lot of players realize this is an option under the rules.  Just don't get hit by the ball.

17-1. Flagstick Attended, Removed or Held Up

Before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole.

I didn't know about that one, I could have benefitted a few times from it, thanks.

[dkolo]

Just imagine his consternation if he was in a deep bunker and you offered to hold up the flag over the hole so he could see the flag.

I'm just throwing this in because I don't think a lot of players realize this is an option under the rules.  Just don't get hit by the ball.

17-1. Flagstick Attended, Removed or Held Up

Before making a stroke from anywhere on the course, the player may have the flagstick attended, removed or held up to indicate the position of the hole.

I hadn't heard of the last one, though it makes sense and I wouldn't have imagined it'd be an issue. Similarly, I don't know if the rules explicitly address it, but sometimes if the flag is out and the person can't see the hole, I'll hold my putter above the hole as a makeshift flag for their benefit.

[Dormie1360]

17-3/6

Marking Position of Hole with Club

Q.The flagstick has been removed. A wants the position of the hole marked but he does not want to waste time retrieving the flagstick. So A asks B to place the grip end of his putter in the hole. Is this permissible?

A. Yes, but a putter used to mark the position of the hole must be treated as a flagstick for the purposes of applying the Rules .

[iacas]

I'm not too proud to admit I got this wrong and botched a call on @NM Golf in an event we were having in Erie at the time. Whispering Woods, 8th hole.

I was wrong. He was right.

My bad.

(I realized later that I knew the rule, but in order to simplify things for my own sake, I'd long ago decided for myself that I would never even take a club in the hazard so as not to confuse anyone or make anyone think I was breaking a rule - just to avoid the discussion. Then I got trapped by my own "personal rule" and looked like a stupid jerk. I know I knew the rule because for the longest time I've taken bunker rakes into bunkers and "gently tossed" them down near my ball [but not in such a way that it could help with alignment] so that I could rake on my way out.)