The Tiger Woods/PED Thread

[Apoc81]

On 6/7/2017 at 9:20 AM, boogielicious said:

Does, as in present tense included unfortunately.

Noe. If PED's and Blood doping were happening, The Tour de France might be exciting once again....

 

Same as pro sports, baseball, football, hockey. People want to see home runs, they want to see freakishly large line-backers, bigger, stronger Hockey players. It brings in viewers, big time. During the home run races, McGuire and Bonds, and a few others, had bodies just short of IFBB pro bodybuilders (which is a competition that truly requires and encourages PED's, natty's need not apply. People tuned into see those powerful home runs, to see how fast man could run 100m, to See the doped up Americans completely shutting out a field at Tour de France, and to see hockey players play real, rough hockey instead of the current poke checking, nobody touch me, why does it seem like Ballet hockey game.

They are pro's, the best of the best, so why not choose to get better? As long as its no amateur sports, I say let the dogs loose.  There are plenty of safe steroids, as found in many studies and medical journals, Testosterone and HGH alone can help us be healthier and happier, less prone to muscle and bone density loss, increased sex drive, and a longer, and more active life. It can make all of us better athletically (until you finally start suffering from megorexia, (Can't get big enough, fear of losing muscle, etc)), and it can make up much more productive in every day life. Why not remove the stigma of "steoids are bad" to "some steroids are bad". Not huge doses of either. 100mg 2x week of Test Enanthate, with 3-4iu HGH, and a healthy diet, and within 12 weeks, you will be a better, happier man, in a healthier body than you have ever had. You become your best you. 

 

Now the problem is, "bad steroids", such as trenbolone, d-bol, Oxy Menathol, and any other Veterinary grade steroid, create a bad rap for all steroids, those are the ones that cause "Roid Rage", and other serious health problems. But when used properly, hormones like test and hgh only help maintain a higher quality of life much longer. Just as long as you don't cross over to dark side of gear. 

Thankfully in Canada, you can legally posses steroids, you just can't sell them. As for me, I haven't done PED's since I was 22, once I finished university hockey(like the rest of the team), but I have been on HGH for almost 3 years (prescribed, and not something I ever asked for, but with 3rd degree burns and nerve damage, it can help rebuild). 

 

TLDR: Some steroids should be legal for all living humans, others should never be allowed in the hands of humans, but the ones that should be legal only help the average male.

 

Sorry for going on and on, but it comes down to one thing, TW has never done PED's, the guy isn't big at all, just at his peak, natural musculature. Thats what happens when you spend 25+ years in the gyum

Edited July 17, 2017 by Apoc81

[iacas]

So… The Tiger Woods book by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian is out now. Chapter 26, titled "Miracle Workers," begins on page 298 and concludes on page 305. It is, thus far, almost all that the authors have to say about Tiger and his possible PED use.

I will note that earlier in the book they pointed out that Tiger, during the 2008 U.S. Open that he won with two stress fractures following the complete loss of his left ACL in late 2007, Tiger would only take Motrin or aspirin or something, as other stronger pain relief could affect his touch and sensitivity.

---

Eight days after winning the U.S. Open over Rocco Mediate in a 19-hole playoff, woods underwent ACL replacement surgery. Dr. Rosenberg, of Park City, Utah, conducted the surgery.

"By the summer of 2008, the name Dr. Mark Lindsay was being passed among elite athletes searching for state-of-the-art recovery techniques and the realignment of their bodies." Dr. Mark Lindsay was a Toronto-based chiropractor known for having worked with Maria Sharapova, Donovan Bailey, Alex Rodriguez, and many others. He used something called Active Release Technique, ART, which was a combination of massage and stretching designed to stimulate and release the fascia beneath the skin and maximize recovery.

Woods was introduced to Dr. Lindsay by volleyball star Gabby Reece, who found him via linebacker Bill Romanowski, who said "bottom line, Tiger's career was over if he didn't have Mark. Tiger was so locked up, his whole kinetic chain was messed up."

Dr. Lindsay doesn't use drugs - it's a massage and stretching routine, and he uses his hands to conduct his therapy.

Six weeks after the surgery, Dr. Lindsay sent Tiger to Bill Knowles, a strength and conditioning specialist with two decades of experience working with world-class athletes. Knowles and Tiger worked for six months, five days a week, at the gym and the pool twice a day.

In mid-October, Tiger began swinging a club, but the book implies he was going too fast too hard. Ditto for his workouts, which stepped up too. He was doing "Olympic-style lifts" by the end of 2008.

Tiger was on schedule to return to the Tour in 2009, but injured his ACL around his birthday (December 30).

That's all background for this: Dr. Mark Lindsay recommended the Toronto-based Dr. Anthony Galea to Tiger. The two had met at the 1994 Winter Olympics and they shared office space for a few years. "Galea was considered a pioneer in PRP," a process by which the patient's own blood is withdrawn, centrifuged, and injected into the injury site because there are growth factors in the platelets that are especially effective at healing tendon/ligament injuries like the ACL or achilles.

It's also legal if used to treat an injury (you can dope for increased oxygen capacity, say, if you're a long-distance runner or cyclist). It uses no drugs or foreign substances. Dr. Lindsay said "that's why we worked so well together. Tony would treat the specific injury and I would work on the [body] system."

"Court documents suggest an extra incentive that Dr. Galea had available to get male athletes to seek his services - access to Viagra or Cialis, for free and without fear of detection." (No prescription or paper trail.) Cialis and Viagra aren't PEDs, but given Tiger's sexual proclivities at the time… may have been an added incentive. "Viagra was the hook" said one athlete, and Dr. Galea's assistant would often package Cialis and Viagra in different bottles when coming from Canada to the U.S.

Tiger would lay down on a massage table, and a long needle would be used to inject the PRP into Tiger's achilles and later his achilles and knee.

Court documents show Dr. Galea offered four treatments to patients (in general):

• PRP
• Anti-Inflammatory IVs (which contained Actovegin, an unapproved drug derived from calf's blood).
• Actovegin injections.
• Injections containing a mixture of substances including Nutropin, an HGH, for the purpose of regenerating cartilage and reducing joint inflammation.

Dr. Galea told the New York Times at the end of 2009 that his preferred treatment for knee or ACL injuries was PRP. In that article "he said he had treated Woods's left knee solely with PRP using a centrifuge borrowed from an Orlando doctor - and not with unapproved Actovegin or any illegal PED."

Galea made 14 trips to Woods and billed $76,000, which includes the cost of his first-class flights and expenses and lodging, and $3500 for each treatment (if you earn even $50 million per year, you earn about $76,000 every 13.3 hours).

Galea's assistant was detained on September 14, 2009. She rolled over on Galea after they discovered her with 111 syringes, a centrifuge, 10mg Nutropin, and 250ml of Actovegin. She was on her way to Washington DC to treat an "injured NFL player."

Canadian police raided Dr. Galea's office on October 15, 2009 and seized an "NFL File Folder" and a "professional players journal." None of those documents indicated that Tiger Woods ever received anything but PRP therapy.

Dr. Galea was charged with illegally entering the U.S. to provide medical care more than 100 times, and was sentenced to one day in jail and a $275,000 fine.

The assistant "appeared to contradict his [Galea's] assertions that PRPP and Actovegin were the sole treatment options for knee injuries. She told the government 'Dr. Galea would at times inject a cocktail containing HGH into an athlete. The… HGH injections were designed to help regenerate cartilage growth.'" The book also says "In an email, an attorney for the assistant insisted that she had never witnessed Dr. Galea injecting HGH into Woods."

HGH was legal in Canada, but "subject to extreme limitations in the U.S." at the time. Galea said he "injected the drug only in patients over forty years old as a way to improve their health and stamina. Galea admitted he has personally used HGH for ten years."

Finally…

"So was Wods getting some kind of pharmaceutical boost to speed his recovery from injury? One source with knowledge of Dr. Galea's treatment of Woods had no doubt. 'One hundred percent,' the source said. 'No question.'" The book goes on (emphasis mine) "According to the source, Galea's PRP injections into Woods injured knee and Achilles also contained what the source described as 'miniscule' amounts of both testosterone and HGH. 'All of those - the HGH, testosterone, and PRP - just work together really well to create healing at that localized place of injection,' said the source. 'There's just not enough [testosterone and HGH], and it's so localized [that] there's just no way it would show up in a drug test. It would have been out of his system in a day. Tiger may not have known exactly what Tony was putting in there.'"

The book then adds speculation by Victor Conte of BALCO that Tiger's injury history "could be a sign of PEDs in the form of mineral depletion." Thanks, Victor.

"Woods has consistently and categorically denied the use of PEDs. '[Dr. Galea] did come to my house,' Woods said at a Masters press conference in 2010. 'He never gave me HGH or PEDs. I've never taken that in my entire life. I've never taken any illegal drug ever, for that matter.'"

"Dr. Galea also denies any suggestion that he was party to performance enhancement with Woods or any other athlete." I suppose the authors are drawing the line here between recovery (when an athlete can legally use legal drugs that, outside of injury recovery, is not "performance enhancing."

The book adds "Those who know the truth about Woods and whether he knowingly or otherwise used PEDs probably can be counted on the fingers of one hand." It says that one of those people is almost certainly Dr. Mark Lindsay, and notes that Dr. Lindsay treated Woods 49 times between September 15, 2008 and October 30, 2009. The book details his treatment schedule, the goals ("create efficiency and elasticity…" blah blah blah), and the results ("The efficacy… was significant.")

Lindsay underwent "hundreds of hours" of treatment under the hands of Dr. Lindsay, and his statement is here in full:

During this extended period of time, I was very close to Tiger. At no time during this intensive process did I ever witness Tiger Woods take, discuss, or ask for any banned or performance-enhancing substances, nor did he even indirectly hint about the subject matter of banned substances. Anyone suggesting or implying otherwise is misinformed and wrong. To the contrary, Tiger Woods was fully committed to a proper and highly disciplined rehabilitation process.

Tiger Woods is an exceptionally gifted, highly disciplined, and very spatially aware athlete. These qualities, along with his passion and single-minded commitment to be the best golfer of all time, are nothing short of breathtaking; they are what puts Tiger Woods in a very elite cohort of the best athletes in the history of sports. It is simply wrong and misconceived to apply normal standards of recovery and performance to world-class, elite athletes like Tiger Woods. The exceptional and unique qualities that made Tiger Woods the best elite athlete in his field are the same exceptional and unique qualities that he applied to his rehabilitation and comeback.

I have been in the practice of sports medicine for over twenty-seven years. I have treated hundreds of world-class athletes spanning eight Olympic Games and multiple professional sports disciplines. I know what muscle tone and tissue should feel like. This is critical to the proper treatment of a patient. I continue to be involved in research and stay current with the latest applicable medical literature. I understand body/muscle tone and tissue and the effects of certain drugs on tone and tissue. Tiger Woods's body/muscle tone and tissue are completely consistent with what one would expect from an elite athlete free of any performance-enhancement drugs. Stated differently, there was no evidence of rigid, stiff, and hypertonic body/muscle tone or tissue during my multiple physical examinations of Tiger Woods, which one would expect if performance-enhancing drugs were being used.

With regard to my experience described above and my direct observations and treatment of Tiger Woods, it is my professional opinion that he has not taken any performance-enhancing substances, and that the notion of taking such substances would be abhorrent and repugnant to him. Tiger Woods is truly one of the most impressive, skilled, intense, and determined athletes I have ever worked with. These are the qualities and attributes that drive his rehabilitation and comeback.

---

That's the end of the chapter.

So… one unnamed source speculates that Tiger took PEDs, and for recovery purposes, and in such "minuscule" amounts that they wouldn't be detectable the next day.

Victor Conte speculates.

Everyone with direct access to Woods - including Hank Haney, who for some reason wasn't quoted at all despite his book being a huge source of information - has vehemently denied it.

There's no direct evidence - at all - that Tiger ever took a PED. The circumstantial evidence says that if he used it, it was during recovery from injury - a time at which he had no "performance" to enhance.

---

I still suspect that if the authors wanted to sell the most books, revealing something - some truth - about Tiger's PED usage would have gone a long way toward helping them sell a bunch of books. And yet they've completely failed to do anything of the sort, in my opinion.

Oh, one additional thing… Dr. Galea was not sought out or referred by Alex Rodriguez, according to the book. Dr. Lindsay referred him. This removes a circumstantial "link" that many use to attempt to build their flimsy house of cards.

[turtleback]

Thanks for this post.

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, turtleback said:

Thanks for this post.

You're welcome.

My only conclusion: those who make a big deal out of the Dr. Galea thing WANT Tiger to have been found to have done PEDs.

Because these investigative reporters found nothing. Nothing. And even the stuff they found, which we already knew (and which many thought was worse), was during his recovery, when you don't have a "performance" to "enhance."

---

I've said all along that I don't know if Tiger Woods did PEDs. Nobody except Tiger and a few others could ever possibly know. What I have said is that there is no - none, zip, zilch - actual evidence linking Tiger to PED usage.

[MuniGrit]

Just now, iacas said:

 And even the stuff they found, which we already knew (and which many thought was worse), was during his recovery, when you don't have a "performance" to "enhance."

---

 

Honest question since I really am not sure you understand how PED and other similar drugs work. 

How do you think PED's work?

Also off topic but why can't I PM?

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, MuniGrit said:

Honest question since I really am not sure you understand how PED and other similar drugs work. 

How do you think PED's work?

Perhaps you don't know this, but I have a degree in medicinal chemistry.

The point of my post that you quoted above is that PEDs are allowed when recovering from surgeries, etc. The players are not actively competing. Sometimes players can get TUEs (temporary use exemptions) if medically necessary so that they can take PEDs while competing, even. Tiger wasn't competing when he was recovering from his knee and achilles surgeries. And yet there's no real evidence he took PEDs even then.

[fishgolf]

Given his access to the worlds best fitness trainers, facilities, and nutritionists, the odds are that his rather quick transformation was simply the result of a diligent training program.  But, only Elin knows for sure . 

[brocks]

7 hours ago, iacas said:

The Tiger Woods book by Jeff Benedict and Armen Keteyian is out now. Chapter 26, titled "Miracle Workers," begins on page 298 and concludes on page 305. It is, thus far, almost all that the authors have to say about Tiger and his possible PED use.

Great summary.  And having finished the book, I can assert that the only mention of PEDs after that chapter is this, from Chapter 31 about his breakup with the always tactful Hank Haney:

*****

Days later, Haney was interviewed on Golf Channel by Jim Gray, who asked him if he had ever known of Tiger taking performance-enhancing drugs. Haney said he believed that Tiger never took PEDs. “The only thing I knew about was his issue with sex addiction," Haney said.
Tiger wasn’t pleased. Right after the interview, he shot Haney a text: "Thanks for telling everyone that I was in sex-addiction treatment."
Steinberg was more outspoken. Fuming, he telephoned Haney. "How could you do that?" he yelled. "How could you say that? How can he raise any money? This will kill his foundation."
"I didn’t mean to hurt him or cause him any problems. I apologize if I did," Haney said.
"You better not be doing any more interviews," Steinberg threatened.
"Mark, you don’t control me anymore. I’m going to talk to who I want to talk to."

********

I blame the popsicle incident.

I agree with you --- the authors desperately wanted to find a shred of evidence that Tiger used PEDs, but were unable to.  About the best they could do was quote a 2010 Sports Illustrated poll of PGA pros.  Out of the hundreds of pros they surveyed, only 71 responded, and 17 of those said they thought Tiger might be taking HGH.  No evidence, just their stupid, uninformed opinion.

MY stupid opinion is that it's obvious Tiger didn't use steroids.  As much as he works out, if he did use steroids, he would look like Phil Heath.  Instead, he looks pretty good for a golfer.  Serena Williams has bigger arms than he does.  Heck, I had bigger arms when I was 15, after one year of lifting, with my PEDs being peanut butter and chocolate milk.

God, those were the days, when I could eat anything I wanted, as much as I wanted, and not gain weight unless I really stuffed myself.

 

Edited April 10, 2018 by brocks