What irons?

[taxgolf]

I was very much in doubt to buy the VG3 or my current irons, the Yamaha's. Both Carbon forged. I never hit the VG3 so I couldn't say how they feel. But the Y's have a buttery feel, reasonable forgiving on off center hits. Not a blade look, not sure how to discribe, but no offset with some cb, player irons. I have been told several times that my hcp would lower 2 points if I would play more forgiving irons, but the sound and most of all the feel of a well forged iron is magnificent.I can hit bad balls all day, but the one that smashes well, that wonderful click, makes my day. I chose the Y's over the VG3 because, well, it is Titleist, and it has tungsten in the head. The waiting list was 6 weeks, because demand in Japan was high. The Y's are pure. And nobody's has Y's in the bag which is nice. Hahahaha.

[WedgeHead]

  jswoosh said:

That's a really good tip cheers, I don't know much about older irons as I've not been playing that long. Maybe I've got caught believing the hype that new clubs = new technology and therefore must be better

Don't believe all the hype. See this thread http://thesandtrap.com/t/80375/does-anyone-still-use-old-clubs-on-a-regular-basis for more insight on who is using "old" tech and why. My clubs are 26 yrs. old and wouldn't trade them for anything.

[taxgolf]

@wedgehead. I could not agree more. I have a set of  Yonex Cyberstars forged (2005) in the bag. Same clubs as Ryo Ishikawa used to play with. The feel, grooves and look of those clubheads are unmatched.

[deadon500]

Do not buy NIKE irons   --  Rory hates them and gets money too use them

[David in FL]

  deadon500 said:

Do not buy NIKE irons   --  Rory hates them and gets money too use them

The clubs that the number one player in the world either likes or dislikes probably has no bearing whatsoever on those that would best suit a relatively new golfer.....

[Judah Ben-Hur]

  deadon500 said:

Do not buy NIKE irons   --  Rory hates them and gets money too use them

I wish you would have given that piece of advice out sooner because I already bought some.

[jswoosh]

Another question, is it worth getting a set of blades purely with a view to becoming a better ball striker. My goal is to eventually to be a scratch player, my swing will have to improve dramatically before I can hit them properly but i do practice loads. The idea is to force myself to engrain a good swing instead of getting away with ok ones. Any ideas ?

[Mahonie]

From his book 'Faldo - In Search Of Perfection' published in 1996: "With my golf equipment, it is more complicated, as I can only use clubs and balls that suit my game. At various times I have played with Wilson, Spalding and MacGregor clubs; now I use Mizuno. Usually the deals have been put in place before I have a set that I am completely happy with." "In 1986, after a couple of years out of the limelight and a previous club deal having gone by the board, Karsten Solheim's Ping company was looking to get me interested in playing with their clubs. A set was sent over in the summer of that year and I tried them out in the European Open at Sunningdale - and went round in 62. After the way I had played, John Simpson from IMG came down eager to make the deal, but I don't know what he must have thought when I said, 'I'm sorry, John, these just won't do, the ball goes too straight !' "I have always been a worker of the ball: I like to shape it left to right or right to left, never straight. The Ping's are fine clubs, but I just couldn't manoeuvre the ball in the way I wanted. Ping's are the frontrunners in perimeter weighted clubs, in which a much higher percentage of the weight is located at the heel and toe of the clubhead, giving a much wider 'sweetspot' than a traditional blade and are more forgiving to the handicap golfer. Their hooks and slices don't go as wide, but it was that very concept that made them unsuitable for me." "I would advise any youngster aspiring to be a great player to learn the game using blades rather than the 'game-improvement' type clubs. That is the only way to develop a quality strike to see him or her through to the very top. Some of the top players now play with hollow-backed clubs, but learnt their trade with the blade. It is a bit like learning to drive with a gear shift before moving onto automatic transmission."

[jswoosh]

Thanks[quote name="Mahonie" url="/t/80485/what-irons#post_1113335"]From his book 'Faldo - In Search Of Perfection' published in 1996: "With my golf equipment, it is more complicated, as I can only use clubs and balls that suit my game. At various times I have played with Wilson, Spalding and MacGregor clubs; now I use Mizuno. Usually the deals have been put in place before I have a set that I am completely happy with." "In 1986, after a couple of years out of the limelight and a previous club deal having gone by the board, Karsten Solheim's Ping company was looking to get me interested in playing with their clubs. A set was sent over in the summer of that year and I tried them out in the European Open at Sunningdale - and went round in 62. After the way I had played, John Simpson from IMG came down eager to make the deal, but I don't know what he must have thought when I said, 'I'm sorry, John, these just won't do, the ball goes too straight !' "I have always been a worker of the ball: I like to shape it left to right or right to left, never straight. The Ping's are fine clubs, but I just couldn't manoeuvre the ball in the way I wanted. Ping's are the frontrunners in perimeter weighted clubs, in which a much higher percentage of the weight is located at the heel and toe of the clubhead, giving a much wider 'sweetspot' than a traditional blade and are more forgiving to the handicap golfer. Their hooks and slices don't go as wide, but it was that very concept that made them unsuitable for me." "I would advise any youngster aspiring to be a great player to learn the game using blades rather than the 'game-improvement' type clubs. That is the only way to develop a quality strike to see him or her through to the very top. Some of the top players now play with hollow-backed clubs, but learnt their trade with the blade. It is a bit like learning to drive with a gear shift before moving onto automatic transmission."[/quote] Thanks pal, its just what I was thinking, why would I want to make practice as easy as possible while I'm trying to improve

[Shorty]

  jswoosh said:

Another question, is it worth getting a set of blades purely with a view to becoming a better ball striker. My goal is to eventually to be a scratch player, my swing will have to improve dramatically before I can hit them properly but i do practice loads. The idea is to force myself to engrain a good swing instead of getting away with ok ones. Any ideas ?

Nick Faldo has lots of ideas that aren't necessarily applicable to average golfers.

Do you think you could force yourself to run 100 metres in under 10 seconds by just competing against Olympic runners?

You can't force yourself to ingrain a good swing just because you are using blades. Getting blades won't make you a better ball striker.

A good ballstriker is not unduly disadvantaged by using them. A poor ballstriker is.

Your swing will be extremely consistent no matter what level you are at. You will still know how you hit it no matter what you use. You may get away with less than perfect contact, but frustration in not hitting blades in the middle does not force you to become better, it adds to the frustration.

[jswoosh]

I[quote name="Shorty" url="/t/80485/what-irons#post_1113340"] Nick Faldo has lots of ideas that aren't necessarily applicable to average golfers. Do you think you could force yourself to run 100 metres in under 10 seconds by just competing against Olympic runners? You can't force yourself to ingrain a good swing just because you are using blades. Getting blades won't make you a better ball striker. A good ballstriker is not unduly disadvantaged by using them. A poor ballstriker is. Your swing will be extremely consistent no matter what level you are at. You will still know how you hit it no matter what you use. You may get away with less than perfect contact, but frustration in not hitting blades in the middle does not force you to become better, it adds to the frustration. [/quote] I understand what your saying but my body is physically incapable of running 100 in 10 seconds, it is physically capable of learning a decent golf swing. It's whether my determination to succeed is stronger than the frustration caused by failures along the way that's the question

[Mahonie]

I think there is a general misconception that blades are very unforgiving on miss hits. Miss hits with cavity backs are just as bad but they don't feel as harsh -that is the difference. Everybody should play what they are comfortable with but I genuinely think that lots of players are selling themselves short by not learning to strike the ball properly and just getting away with the perceived forgiveness. There is no way that a 20-handicap swing is as consistent as a single figure player. The whole 'game improvement' culture peddled by the industry has been created to sell more clubs with a higher profit-margin. The result is that the general level of handicaps has not improved in 40 years because misinformed golfers think that they can 'buy a game' with the latest set of irons. They get frustrated when they don't improve and end up walking away from the game....golf has lost more than 180,000 participants in the last 8 years in the UK. The answer is by practicing to become a better player...grooving a consistent swing with game improvement clubs will take a lot longer than if using blades. Faldo is not the only player to suggest this, Tom Watson also encourages this approach.

[Phil McGleno]

  jswoosh said:

I I understand what your saying but my body is physically incapable of running 100 in 10 seconds, it is physically capable of learning a decent golf swing . It's whether my determination to succeed is stronger than the frustration caused by failures along the way that's the question

How do you know that? I have met golfers who will top out at about a 9 handicap, or a 6, and that is if they work at it a LOT. [quote name="Mahonie" url="/t/80485/what-irons/18#post_1113368"]I think there is a general misconception that blades are very unforgiving on miss hits. Miss hits with cavity backs are just as bad but they don't feel as harsh -that is the difference.[/quote] That is not true. Mishits with blades are worse. Lower MOI and less forgiveness.

[Mahonie]

  true said:

That is not true. Mishits with blades are worse. Lower MOI and less forgiveness.

Okay...very slightly worse. In my experience the losses are marginal compared to cbs...the sting in the fingers is the big problem ;-)

[jswoosh]

  Phil McGleno said:

How do you know that? I have met golfers who will top out at about a 9 handicap, or a 6, and that is if they work at it a LOT. That is not true. Mishits with blades are worse. Lower MOI and less forgiveness.

ok another question am I more likely to stay a 6-9 handicapper because ill never have a good enough swing to hit blades, despite how many lessons i have and practice i do, or because my chipping and putting will never get to the level required to be any better ? This is not meant to be sarcastic and is a genuine question

[Dr Hook]

  jswoosh said:

thanks guys, 13 sounds better than it is, I play at course that's wide open and therefore not much punishment for missing fairways. Like I said I've been really impressed with the rocketbladez they go miles and are very forgiving but every now and again a one will go much further than it should, I do know what you mean drvfrshow and if I don't hit a clean shot there's no one to blame but me but it 's so frustrating when you hit a good shot and it flys 20 yards over the back when 90% of the time it would be on the green, I strike the ball ok and I've tried blades but I'm not good enough to hit a longer iron blade consistently yet. That's why I thought combos might be a good next move. The jpx850 look great and like the look of the new Nike vapour but apart from practicing a lot I don't really know much about equipment. If I don't need new then obviously that's good but I've heard a few pros say that the difference between a 10 handicapper and a 2 handicapper is mainly distance control, is it that the 2 handicapper is good enough to hit blades and that's where you get the best distance control from or is it that they can control distance better which ever irons they use? I'm going to have a fitting next week and they do have a launch monitor so will be interesting to see the numbers but it's only every now and again one will fly so it might not happen when comparing them to the newer ones

No.....13 is what it is if you did it right regardless of course. Factor in 5 rounds, slope rating etc....and configure it that way. That's great progress for a year though. It takes some of us decades just to break 90.

[Lihu]

  jswoosh said:

Another question, is it worth getting a set of blades purely with a view to becoming a better ball striker. My goal is to eventually to be a scratch player, my swing will have to improve dramatically before I can hit them properly but i do practice loads. The idea is to force myself to engrain a good swing instead of getting away with ok ones. Any ideas ?

That's kind of what I think. The reason is because the feeling of hitting just one shot well, will make your entire round feel good. I still remember hitting my 3i nicely, even though my swing is currently crappy. That feeling is driving me to improve my swing to do that again. It's an addictive feeling. My son just went from Ping I20 to Cleveland CG Tour irons at the start of this season. He's hitting them pretty well, and is even using his old i20 4i as a driving iron. My original thought to him was to use those for training only, but now he's addicted. The good news is his ball striking is okay enough to use them. So, even at two ends of the skill spectrum, the feeling of hitting a blade well is driving us to improve. [quote name="jswoosh" url="/t/80485/what-irons/18#post_1113438"][quote name="Phil McGleno" url="/t/80485/what-irons/30#post_1113372"] How do you know that? I have met golfers who will top out at about a 9 handicap, or a 6, and that is if they work at it a LOT. That is not true. Mishits with blades are worse. Lower MOI and less forgiveness.[/quote] ok another question am I more likely to stay a 6-9 handicapper because ill never have a good enough swing to hit blades, despite how many lessons i have and practice i do, or because my chipping and putting will never get to the level required to be any better ? This is not meant to be sarcastic and is a genuine question[/quote] What could keep you from scratch is lack of distance and accuracy, mainly distance.

[jswoosh]

  Lihu said:

That's kind of what I think. The reason is because the feeling of hitting just one shot well, will make your entire round feel good. I still remember hitting my 3i nicely, even though my swing is currently crappy. That feeling is driving me to improve my swing to do that again. It's an addictive feeling. My son just went from Ping I20 to Cleveland CG Tour irons at the start of this season. He's hitting them pretty well, and is even using his old i20 4i as a driving iron. My original thought to him was to use those for training only, but now he's addicted. The good news is his ball striking is okay enough to use them. So, even at two ends of the skill spectrum, the feeling of hitting a blade well is driving us to improve. What could keep you from scratch is lack of distance and accuracy, mainly distance.

Distance isn't really an issue that's one of the reasons I'm happy to change from the rocketbladez. It's touch and accuracy, mainly touch though