PGA Tour Players WD Too Often

[Quadhole]

Excuse #1- My wrist is tight and don't want to damage it further.

What he really thought  :  My round is bad, I am down 10 strokes by the 9th hole on thursday and don't want to fight my way out of it, I am going home ! Mama always said, if you can't beat them, join them....

Excuse # 2 - Twisted back nad a little affraid to make it worse...

What he really meant to say was : Too windy and I started with a double, boogie, and then a triple Bog. I am done for this weekend, besides, my boys are going four wheeling on the ranch and the wife has plans... Woo hoo... Besides, I make 600K a year and wont make anything here. Too far back and I am tired of finishing 40 and collecting a measly $25,000.00

In the long run, these high dollar babies will suffer by not using the oppurtuinty to test their resolve.

The PGA has to now do something about this problem. Of course I feel troubled by it because it broke up my draft king teams. That ins only money. I want more to see these guys fight thru it. Sad that a guy like ZAC BLAIR would quit.

Or any of the other 5 now. It can't be all injuries, and if there is a guy with one, he get's lumped in with this bunch.

If you WD this week, you can not play next week. You forfeit 2 start of play at a later date. Something, they have to put a stop to the guys being to pampered and not able to deal with adversity....

Can't wait to hear the high roads....

1. They were all injured, how do I know they were not ?

2. No pro golfer would ever withdraw without a legit excuse, after all, they are PRO's...

Ad Chopra

[3putter]

Excuse #1- My wrist is tight and don't want to damage it further.

What he really thought  :  My round is bad, I am down 10 strokes by the 9th hole on thursday and don't want to fight my way out of it, I am going home ! Mama always said, if you can't beat them, join them....

Excuse # 2 - Twisted back nad a little affraid to make it worse...

What he really meant to say was : Too windy and I started with a double, boogie, and then a triple Bog. I am done for this weekend, besides, my boys are going four wheeling on the ranch and the wife has plans... Woo hoo... Besides, I make 600K a year and wont make anything here. Too far back and I am tired of finishing 40 and collecting a measly $25,000.00

In the long run, these high dollar babies will suffer by not using the oppurtuinty to test their resolve.

The PGA has to now do something about this problem. Of course I feel troubled by it because it broke up my draft king teams. That ins only money. I want more to see these guys fight thru it. Sad that a guy like ZAC BLAIR would quit.

Or any of the other 5 now. It can't be all injuries, and if there is a guy with one, he get's lumped in with this bunch.

If you WD this week, you can not play next week. You forfeit 2 start of play at a later date. Something, they have to put a stop to the guys being to pampered and not able to deal with adversity....

Can't wait to hear the high roads....

1. They were all injured, how do I know they were not ?

2. No pro golfer would ever withdraw without a legit excuse, after all, they are PRO's...

Ad Chopra

I'm guessing this is suppose to be satire. If it is, then it's somewhat funny. If it's meant to be serious, then I'm respectfully speechless

[Quadhole]

It is a little bit of both.... I certainly am serious about the problem... There is no way all those guy have injuries. If you are speechless about the serious part of, why ? Do you actually think it is ok for these guys to drop off like fly's just because they are having a bad round ?

I know they would LIE and say they have an injury, and it would be difficult to call them out. If the PGA puts something in place to stop it, it will go away. If not, then we are going to get to the point where we have 10 - 15 WD's each week by next year.

I have read an article or two about it already. It is becoming an issue.  let's face it, they do make a fortune and live really well.  If your in Texas for a tournament, shoot an 80 and feel you can go home tomorrow morning and start a mini vacation before the masters, or, you dont play next week and dont have a pass for the masters, you can start your vacation today.

Yes, Satire about a serious issue....

I expect some here, considering the format and Higer level of people. Would think nothing of it.

For a fan, or people that appriciate hard work, dedication and fortitude, that dont make a lot of money, they would expect all palyer to continue on, even if they are having a bad round. You will miss the cut on Saturday, so be a Professional and finish your round. I wont even go into the Irony of their scores, vs if they were even par. They need some way of stopping it. Just lacks what it takes to be a professional.

All you have to do is look at each players card to know why they WD. It is not because of an injury. it is because they were playing bad and decided to POUT... Like I wrote, feel sorry for the one guy that may have an injury... I am sure the PGA has Doctors out there that can make an educated call. Outside of that, you can never really call someone a liar, that is why I think they need something in place.

Serious : Miss this week, you can not play next week as we want you to heal properly from your "INJURY"

[rkim291968]

If you WD this week, you can not play next week. You forfeit 2 start of play at a later date. Something, they have to put a stop to the guys being to pampered and not able to deal with adversity....

I fully agree.   There must be a hefty fine (big enough to deter players from faking injury) or automatic "injury" suspension (e.g, out for 30 days).

I noted in another thread ("Valero") that we don't see players in the lead or near the lead WD for injury.  Even if there are legit injuries, those players in or near the lead will opt to grind it out.

Fans lose out on these WDs especially if they bought tickets to follow/see specific player who WD'd.

[Golfingdad]

Of course I feel troubled by it because it broke up my draft king teams.

Any chance that this is the SOLE reason for your displeasure?  If you answer no, is there any chance I'd believe you?

(If the second question needs to be asked, then the answer is the same as the first.)

[billchao]

I fully agree.   There must be a hefty fine (big enough to deter players from faking injury) or automatic "injury" suspension (e.g, out for 30 days).

How do you propose they police this? Who determines where the line is, for example, for some minor injury or pain that's affecting a player's performance, whether it is "real" or "fake"?

Penalizing players for being injured, real or fake, is only going to create more injury problems as people try to play through things they probably shouldn't be.

I noted in another thread ("Valero") that we don't see players in the lead or near the lead WD for injury.  Even if there are legit injuries, those players in or near the lead will opt to grind it out.

That's kind of obvious, isn't it? If you have a chance to win, it's worth the risk and pain to go for it. If you're looking at MC or T40 or something, it's not exactly good motivation to risk further injury.

Fans lose out on these WDs especially if they bought tickets to follow/see specific player who WD'd.

This happens all the time in many sports. I don't think it's a good reason to prevent people from withdrawing.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

I fully agree.   There must be a hefty fine (big enough to deter players from faking injury) or automatic "injury" suspension (e.g, out for 30 days).

How do you propose they police this? Who determines where the line is, for example, for some minor injury or pain that's affecting a player's performance, whether it is "real" or "fake"?

Penalizing players for being injured, real or fake, is only going to create more injury problems as people try to play through things they probably shouldn't be.

Maybe so.  But I doubt if a player is really injured, he will continue to play through injury to avoid paying hefty fine.     Most of them we care about WD'ng are millionaires many times over.   Even the rookies get 6 figure sponsor endorsement.   (IMO) Most of them are not gonna risk their career by trying to play through their injury.   But if the tour can select the right amount for fine, it will give the fakers some incentive to finish the tournament.   Perhaps, no amount of fine will deter the fakers but I still like to see this get addressed by the tour.

In other sports like football, many will play through injury to keep their position in the team.   Golf is different in this aspect.   If a golfer doesn't finish high up in the money, he has very little incentive to continue ... and a few opts to WD.

[Abu3baid]

Maybe so.  But I doubt if a player is really injured, he will continue to play through injury to avoid paying hefty fine.     Most of them we care about WD'ng are millionaires many times over.   Even the rookies get 6 figure sponsor endorsement.   (IMO) Most of them are not gonna risk their career by trying to play through their injury.   But if the tour can select the right amount for fine, it will give the fakers some incentive to finish the tournament.   Perhaps, no amount of fine will deter the fakers but I still like to see this get addressed by the tour.   In other sports like football, many will play through injury to keep their position in the team.   Golf is different in this aspect.   If a golfer doesn't finish high up in the money, he has very little incentive to continue ... and a few opts to WD.

I don't agree with the fine across the board. I liked the idea that if you withdraw for any reason then you automatically are not eligible for the next two tournaments or something like that. This would make people think twice about not finishing a round if they are physically able to. Or make it 30 days or two tournaments which ever one comes first? If you are really injured you need the time off, if you are not then you have time to think about why you took your self out before finishing the tourney.

[Golfingdad]

Maybe so.  But I doubt if a player is really injured, he will continue to play through injury to avoid paying hefty fine.     Most of them we care about WD'ng are millionaires many times over.   Even the rookies get 6 figure sponsor endorsement.   (IMO) Most of them are not gonna risk their career by trying to play through their injury.   But if the tour can select the right amount for fine, it will give the fakers some incentive to finish the tournament.   Perhaps, no amount of fine will deter the fakers but I still like to see this get addressed by the tour.

In other sports like football, many will play through injury to keep their position in the team.   Golf is different in this aspect.   If a golfer doesn't finish high up in the money, he has very little incentive to continue ... and a few opts to WD.

This makes no sense.  As long as we punish all of the guilty parties who cares if we're also punishing innocent ones?

[dkolo]

Excuse #1- My wrist is tight and don't want to damage it further.

What he really thought  :  My round is bad, I am down 10 strokes by the 9th hole on thursday and don't want to fight my way out of it, I am going home ! Mama always said, if you can't beat them, join them....

Excuse # 2 - Twisted back nad a little affraid to make it worse...

What he really meant to say was : Too windy and I started with a double, boogie, and then a triple Bog. I am done for this weekend, besides, my boys are going four wheeling on the ranch and the wife has plans... Woo hoo... Besides, I make 600K a year and wont make anything here. Too far back and I am tired of finishing 40 and collecting a measly $25,000.00

In the long run, these high dollar babies will suffer by not using the oppurtuinty to test their resolve.

The PGA has to now do something about this problem. Of course I feel troubled by it because it broke up my draft king teams. That ins only money. I want more to see these guys fight thru it. Sad that a guy like ZAC BLAIR would quit.

Or any of the other 5 now. It can't be all injuries, and if there is a guy with one, he get's lumped in with this bunch.

If you WD this week, you can not play next week. You forfeit 2 start of play at a later date. Something, they have to put a stop to the guys being to pampered and not able to deal with adversity....

Can't wait to hear the high roads....

1. They were all injured, how do I know they were not ?

2. No pro golfer would ever withdraw without a legit excuse, after all, they are PRO's...

Ad Chopra

If you're injured and don't have a realistic chance of making the cut, never mind winning, why push yourself if it's something that might get worse? This is your livelihood.

As for the general tone of your criticism, I think there's some underlying shaky logic. It's entirely conceivable to me that some of these guys played poorly because they were injured. Maybe they were injured going into the tournament but wanted to push through it to uphold a commitment they made to play in it. I can't prove it anymore than you can yours, but if there's two plausible conclusions, I won't go to the one that impugns character without some further basis to do so.

Look, is it possible some or all are malingering? Absolutely. I just don't feel comfortable casting aspersions without knowing more details. People made similar comments on Tiger over the past few years when he was pulling out of tournaments, only to be proven wrong when he had to have surgery or extended layoffs afterwards. Golf, especially at the professional level, is a game of honor and part of that involves giving people the benefit of the doubt in cases where only they can know some key fact.

[Golfingdad]

I can't prove it anymore than you can yours, but if there's two plausible conclusions, I won't go to the one that impugns character without some further basis to do so.

Just wanted to re-quote only this part so it stands out.  Fantastic point.

Also, this may also get plagiarized by me in some future thread - just warning you now.

[billchao]

Maybe so.  But I doubt if a player is really injured, he will continue to play through injury to avoid paying hefty fine.

Maybe, maybe not. I guarantee they'll keep playing to avoid an "injury" suspension, as you proposed.

Most of them we care about WD'ng are millionaires many times over.   Even the rookies get 6 figure sponsor endorsement.

So fans don't like it when brand name players WD and the answer is to implement a policy that would disproportionately punish the lesser known players (who don't make as much money)?

I never understood the whole "they make a lot of money so they shouldn't WD" argument, to begin with.

But if the tour can select the right amount for fine, it will give the fakers some incentive to finish the tournament.   Perhaps, no amount of fine will deter the fakers but I still like to see this get addressed by the tour.

The problem would be the amount of the fine. Too little, and it gives players an "out" when they're not playing well. Too much and it penalizes the less wealthy players. Neither addresses my original point of how you expect the tour to police this.

In other sports like football, many will play through injury to keep their position in the team.   Golf is different in this aspect.   If a golfer doesn't finish high up in the money, he has very little incentive to continue ... and a few opts to WD.

It's not a like comparison. There are different factors to consider in other sports, but this would really be OT.

Golfers absolutely have incentive to continue. Too many WDs and they end up too low on the money list at the end of the year. They're still going to want to keep their card.

I liked the idea that if you withdraw for any reason then you automatically are not eligible for the next two tournaments or something like that. This would make people think twice about not finishing a round if they are physically able to. Or make it 30 days or two tournaments which ever one comes first?

If you are really injured you need the time off, if you are not then you have time to think about why you took your self out before finishing the tourney.

You know what the problem with that is? Let's say you sprain your wrist. We know it's going to be harmful to keep playing with a sprained wrist, but it will heal in a few days. I can see trying to punish people who are faking it (still, good luck proving it), but you're going to keep a guy out for two tournaments, for a legitimate issue? There are such things as injuries that heal relatively quickly, you know.

He's likely to play through the injury, as I said, and end up hurting himself worse and missing even more time.

[rkim291968]

I don't agree with the fine across the board. I liked the idea that if you withdraw for any reason then you automatically are not eligible for the next two tournaments or something like that. This would make people think twice about not finishing a round if they are physically able to. Or make it 30 days or two tournaments which ever one comes first?

I like that option, too, except, many players (good ones) skip 2 - 3 tournaments in between anyway.    How about making it 30 days for 1st time offense, 45 days for 2nd time within the same season, etc..   If one is truly injury prone, the player would need all of that time to recover, get back in shape, etc..     (   In boxing, may orgs have some variation of the following rule: if one gets knock down during a fight, it's automatically a 30 day suspension to protect the boxer from further head injury.  )

[dkolo]

I like that option, too, except, many players (good ones) skip 2 - 3 tournaments in between anyway.    How about making it 30 days for 1st time offense, 45 days for 2nd time within the same season, etc..   If one is truly injury prone, the player would need all of that time to recover, get back in shape, etc..     (   In boxing, may orgs have some variation of the following rule: if one gets knock down during a fight, it's automatically a 30 day suspension to protect the boxer from further head injury.  )

So if a guy gets cramps from heat dehydration during one of the summer tournaments (which, recall, the players cannot wear shorts during), he has to miss a month in the middle of major season? This is an eventuality you're comfortable with?

[Golfingdad]

Can we back up a little bit and actually confirm that this is a problem before we start talking about solutions?  Because I don't believe for one second that it is.  (We can't just take quadholes word for it because he gambles money on these guys)

Who really "missed" watching Graeme McDowell finishing out his 82 yesterday?  Secondly, and more importantly, how would him continuing yesterday BENEFIT the PGA tour?

Same question for the other guys who all either finished in the vicinity of +10, or were well on their way to something similar?

[dkolo]

This makes no sense.  As long as we punish all of the guilty parties who cares if we're also punishing innocent ones?

Right, it's nuts. I disagree with the fundamental premise some other folks seem to have here in this thread that this is a widespread-enough problem to warrant measures as drastic as some being proposed here.

Just wanted to re-quote only this part so it stands out.  Fantastic point.

Also, this may also get plagiarized by me in some future thread - just warning you now.

Aww. You're too kind, haha. It's just something I've been seeing in a few other threads on here lately and it bugs me. It's too easy to accuse people of the worst in relative anonymity on the internet.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

I like that option, too, except, many players (good ones) skip 2 - 3 tournaments in between anyway.    How about making it 30 days for 1st time offense, 45 days for 2nd time within the same season, etc..   If one is truly injury prone, the player would need all of that time to recover, get back in shape, etc..     (   In boxing, may orgs have some variation of the following rule: if one gets knock down during a fight, it's automatically a 30 day suspension to protect the boxer from further head injury.  )

So if a guy gets cramps from heat dehydration during one of the summer tournaments (which, recall, the players cannot wear shorts during), he has to miss a month in the middle of major season? This is an eventuality you're comfortable with?

I doubt it if a guy gets cramps and quits due to injury scenario would happen a lot.   If you or billchao and others have ideas to entertain to deter "fakers" from WD'ng, I am all ears.   No rules is going to make everyone happy, or be fair to all.   So, I understand if your idea may not be fool proof but share what you think may work.   I assume you all jumped to this thread b/c you care about excessive number of WDs on the current tournament, no?

[Abu3baid]

Maybe, maybe not. I guarantee they'll keep playing to avoid an "injury" suspension, as you proposed. So fans don't like it when brand name players WD and the answer is to implement a policy that would disproportionately punish the lesser known players (who don't make as much money)? I never understood the whole "they make a lot of money so they shouldn't WD" argument, to begin with. The problem would be the amount of the fine. Too little, and it gives players an "out" when they're not playing well. Too much and it penalizes the less wealthy players. Neither addresses my original point of how you expect the tour to police this. It's not a like comparison. There are different factors to consider in other sports, but this would really be OT. Golfers absolutely have incentive to continue. Too many WDs and they end up too low on the money list at the end of the year. They're still going to want to keep their card. You know what the problem with that is? Let's say you sprain your wrist. We know it's going to be harmful to keep playing with a sprained wrist, but it will heal in a few days. I can see trying to punish people who are faking it (still, good luck proving it), but you're going to keep a guy out for two tournaments, for a legitimate issue? There are such things as injuries that heal relatively quickly, you know. He's likely to play through the injury, as I said, and end up hurting himself worse and missing even more time.

You are right, I thought about having a doctor on hand to verify injury, but any player can just say ouch, it hurts when ever the doctor touched him.. So, yeah the guy with the sprain will be treated like the guy with a broken leg or guy that's faking it. [quote name="rkim291968" url="/t/81011/7-wds-by-1-2-way-thru-fridays-round-was-only-6-when-i-started-typing-pga-now-has-a-problem-what-will-they-do/10_10#post_1120340"] I like that option, too, except, many players (good ones) skip 2 - 3 tournaments in between anyway.    How about making it 30 days for 1st time offense, 45 days for 2nd time within the same season, etc..   If one is truly injury prone, the player would need all of that time to recover, get back in shape, etc..     (   In boxing, may orgs have some variation of the following rule: if one gets knock down during a fight, it's automatically a 30 day suspension to protect the boxer from further head injury.  ) [/quote] That works!