Recreational "Tour" with Modified Rules, Good or Bad?

[Braivo]

Today at my home course there was a very large group teeing off mid-day. I was curious and asked around. Turns out it is a recreational "tour". Intended for weekend bogey golfers to play competitive golf on a variety of courses throughout the year.

I checked out their site , it is pretty in depth. They have a few events each weekend all summer long. Players have a modified handicap (not USGA). They have live scoring, purse money, money list, tour championship, etc.

At first I thought this was exactly what I was looking for. I have been wanting to play competitive golf as of late, and keeping my eyes open to opportunities.

This "tour" seemed perfect for me until I saw that they modify the rules quite a bit. Here is the description of the rules changes:

7. What are the rules differences between the USGA and the Mulligan Tour?

The significant rules differences are:

* optional mulligan on first tee only

* no loss of distance for O.B. or lost ball

* lift, clean , and replace ball in fairway or rough (within 6" of spot)

* move ball 6" in any direction to improve lie (except on the green)

* 3 putts maximum

* Quadruple Bogie Max score per hole

I have just recently established a USGA handicap and have enjoyed getting better at golf while strictly following the rules of golf.

Is modifying the rules of golf like this good or bad for the game? On the one hand it may attract more recreational golfers and allow them to enjoy the game more, but is it too far from the spirit of the game?

The first two rules I am fine with since these are not USGA handicap rounds, it's the "preferred lies" in the third and fourth bullet that concern me. If I play this I have two choices: 1) I can choose to ignore the rule and leave my ball as it lies, putting me at a disadvantage in the competition, or 2) follow the "preferred lies" and really hurt myself when I play outside of this tour and have had little practice playing from difficult lies . This is my main concern, that myself, as well as the golfers on this "tour" are learning and practicing the game without having to face one of the most challenging aspects: playing the ball as it lies.

Any thoughts? Should I give this a try, or will it take me too far from a path to competitive golf? Honestly, without the rules modifications this tour sounds like a lot of fun, that's why it bothers me.

[Jeremie Boop]

I think it be a fun recreational event. You could technically still use those rounds for handicap purposes if you follow the normal rules. My league basically follows everything except for the mulligan on the first tee, but I follow the real rules so I can post the scores.

[trackster]

Today at my home course there was a very large group teeing off mid-day. I was curious and asked around. Turns out it is a recreational "tour". Intended for weekend bogey golfers to play competitive golf on a variety of courses throughout the year.

I checked out their site, it is pretty in depth. They have a few events each weekend all summer long. Players have a modified handicap (not USGA). They have live scoring, purse money, money list, tour championship, etc.

At first I thought this was exactly what I was looking for. I have been wanting to play competitive golf as of late, and keeping my eyes open to opportunities.

This "tour" seemed perfect for me until I saw that they modify the rules quite a bit. Here is the description of the rules changes:

I have just recently established a USGA handicap and have enjoyed getting better at golf while strictly following the rules of golf.

Is modifying the rules of golf like this good or bad for the game? On the one hand it may attract more recreational golfers and allow them to enjoy the game more, but is it too far from the spirit of the game?

The first two rules I am fine with since these are not USGA handicap rounds, it's the "preferred lies" in the third and fourth bullet that concern me. If I play this I have two choices: 1) I can choose to ignore the rule and leave my ball as it lies, putting me at a disadvantage in the competition, or 2) follow the "preferred lies" and really hurt myself when I play outside of this tour and have had little practice playing from difficult lies. This is my main concern, that myself, as well as the golfers on this "tour" are learning and practicing the game without having to face one of the most challenging aspects: playing the ball as it lies.

Any thoughts? Should I give this a try, or will it take me too far from a path to competitive golf? Honestly, without the rules modifications this tour sounds like a lot of fun, that's why it bothers me.

If you think it sounds fun then there is really no harm in trying it out.

I personally think that movements that push breaches of rules are detrimental to the game.  When I started following the rules I found that I had a lot more fun.  It was easy to compare rounds and tell if I was getting better.  I couldn't imagine trying to play the way I did when I started the game.  In addition, I feel like my game improved because I got practice playing shots from poor lies.

Your concern about this is the same as mine.  I feel like this will only hurt you when you go back to playing by the rules.

[saevel25]

The first two rules I am fine with since these are not USGA handicap rounds, it's the "preferred lies" in the third and fourth bullet that concern me. If I play this I have two choices: 1) I can choose to ignore the rule and leave my ball as it lies, putting me at a disadvantage in the competition, or 2) follow the "preferred lies" and really hurt myself when I play outside of this tour and have had little practice playing from difficult lies. This is my main concern, that myself, as well as the golfers on this "tour" are learning and practicing the game without having to face one of the most challenging aspects: playing the ball as it lies.

Any thoughts? Should I give this a try, or will it take me too far from a path to competitive golf? Honestly, without the rules modifications this tour sounds like a lot of fun, that's why it bothers me.

If it is something you are interested in, give it a try. I would be cautious of trying to compete in tournaments using USGA handicaps in addition to doing those modified tournaments. Just because it's a totally different style of golf, and it might make you play worse when you go back to strict rules of golf.

[Braivo]

I think it be a fun recreational event. You could technically still use those rounds for handicap purposes if you follow the normal rules. My league basically follows everything except for the mulligan on the first tee, but I follow the real rules so I can post the scores.

I could follow the real rules, but then I'd essentially take myself out of the competition part which would take away a lot of the fun I believe. If it was just an event or two that'd be fine, but it is a weekly tour the whole season.

If you think it sounds fun then there is really no harm in trying it out.

I personally think that movements that push breaches of rules are detrimental to the game.  When I started following the rules I found that I had a lot more fun.  It was easy to compare rounds and tell if I was getting better.  I couldn't imagine trying to play the way I did when I started the game.  In addition, I feel like my game improved because I got practice playing shots from poor lies.

Your concern about this is the same as mine.  I feel like this will only hurt you when you go back to playing by the rules.

My thoughts exactly, for years I always "fluffed" my lies as I was not playing seriously. Then when I started to play for real I couldn't get under the ball with a wedge.

If it is something you are interested in, give it a try. I would be cautious of trying to compete in tournaments using USGA handicaps in addition to doing those modified tournaments. Just because it's a totally different style of golf, and it might make you play worse when you go back to strict rules of golf.

Very true. I really want to compete in legit tournaments, but I haven't been able to make them work with my schedule and location. This tour looked great at first but the lax rules really bums me out. I may just press on looking for USGA handicap events.

Joining this tour is essentially accepting bogey golf for life and ending my real improvement.

[DrvFrShow]

Sounds like a fun event. See the purpose of rules is so that everyone is on a level playing field. They're not recording their scores in GHIN so no foul. They're all playing by the same rules. Preferred lies is fine for recreational golfers. A lot of people play them all the time anyway.

Here's what I'd do, though. When you play your practice rounds, play them by strict rules. Don't play your practice rounds using preferred lies. See it's easy to go from strict rules to preferred lies, but not go the other way without a surprise. However, it is my own experience that I haven't noticed any difference in scoring playing preferred lies or playing the ball where it lies. We play lift and clean here in the spring because of the mucky fairways, but as of June 1 that stops. And right now we're playing off hard pan with some grass growing out of it.

[Braivo]

Sounds like a fun event. See the purpose of rules is so that everyone is on a level playing field. They're not recording their scores in GHIN so no foul. They're all playing by the same rules. Preferred lies is fine for recreational golfers. A lot of people play them all the time anyway.

Here's what I'd do, though. When you play your practice rounds, play them by strict rules. Don't play your practice rounds using preferred lies. See it's easy to go from strict rules to preferred lies, but not go the other way without a surprise. However, it is my own experience that I haven't noticed any difference in scoring playing preferred lies or playing the ball where it lies. We play lift and clean here in the spring because of the mucky fairways, but as of June 1 that stops. And right now we're playing off hard pan with some grass growing out of it.

Yeah, I really do want to play because it is competitive and fits my weekend schedule perfectly, and I can play a variety of courses all year long. No harm in trying it out. I will just play the rest of my rounds by the strict rules to keep grounded.

[Elmer]

7. What are the rules differences between the USGA and the Mulligan Tour?

The significant rules differences are:

* optional mulligan on first tee only

* no loss of distance for O.B. or lost ball

* lift, clean , and replace ball in fairway or rough (within 6" of spot)

* move ball 6" in any direction to improve lie (except on the green)

* 3 putts maximum

* Quadruple Bogie Max score per hole

My league plays by similar rules:

* no loss of distance for O.B. or lost ball
* lift, clean , and replace ball in fairway or rough (within reason)
* move ball to improve lie (except on the green)

I am not sure why you would want a Mulligan on the 1st tee? That is usually one of my better drives, I am focused and not getting lazy.

I want a mulligan mid way through the round when I start to get tired and lose my focus.

[Jon Hoover]

I'd say go for it and only LCP on shots where you get a really bad lie like a divot or something but not use it on every shot, that's probably why they have it in place because at the courses they play at you might be in a divot or weeds in the fairway. All those except for the breakfast ball are rules my weekly league uses and i don't think I've ever moved the ball to "fluff my lie" but if I got a horribly bad lie for some reason or another its nice to have the option available, I usually still win money for skins or net. Just last week i was behind a root and still played it but could have moved it, still had decent recovery though. If you play well enough it really doesn't matter if someone else moves their ball on every shot realistically. You are only hindering yourself by thinking that your playing at a disadvantage by not moving the ball, just play it as you normally would and have fun.

[David in FL]

Today at my home course there was a very large group teeing off mid-day. I was curious and asked around. Turns out it is a recreational "tour". Intended for weekend bogey golfers to play competitive golf on a variety of courses throughout the year.  I checked out their [URL=http://www.themulligantour.com/]site[/URL], it is pretty in depth. They have a few events each weekend all summer long. Players have a modified handicap (not USGA). They have live scoring, purse money, money list, tour championship, etc.  At first I thought this was exactly what I was looking for. I have been wanting to play competitive golf as of late, and keeping my eyes open to opportunities.  This "tour" seemed perfect for me until I saw that they modify the rules quite a bit. Here is the description of the rules changes: I have just recently established a USGA handicap and have enjoyed getting better at golf while strictly following the rules of golf.   Is modifying the rules of golf like this good or bad for the game? On the one hand it may attract more recreational golfers and allow them to enjoy the game more, but is it too far from the spirit of the game?   The first two rules I am fine with since these are not USGA handicap rounds, it's the "preferred lies" in the third and fourth bullet that concern me. If I play this I have two choices: 1) I can choose to ignore the rule and leave my ball as it lies, putting me at a disadvantage in the competition, or 2) follow the "preferred lies" and really hurt myself when I play outside of this tour and have had little practice playing from difficult lies . This is my main concern, that myself, as well as the golfers on this "tour" are learning and practicing the game without having to face one of the most challenging aspects: playing the ball as it lies.  Any thoughts? Should I give this a try, or will it take me too far from a path to competitive golf? Honestly, without the rules modifications this tour sounds like a lot of fun, that's why it bothers me.

If the ball is lost, how do you know where to drop....? There are plenty of amateur tours out there that play real golf. Play in them. You'll have a ton of fun, and will become a much better golfer in the process too.

[Elmer]

If the ball is lost, how do you know where to drop....?

There are plenty of amateur tours out there that play real golf. Play in them. You'll have a ton of fun, and will become a much better golfer in the process too.

you estimate the point of entry to OB or you along with playing partners determine an acceptable spot to drop for a lost ball.

[David in FL]

you estimate the point of entry to OB or you along with playing partners determine an acceptable spot to drop for a lost ball.

If it's lost, by definition you don't know where it is.  Often you have no idea at all.  All this is, is a different set of rules for those that don't like the real rules.  Meh....  Play golf.

[Elmer]

If it's lost, by definition you don't know where it is.  Often you have no idea at all.  All this is, is a different set of rules for those that don't like the real rules.  Meh....  Play golf.

I think you are over thinking this.

You hit your ball that way, over by the tree. You get there and dont find your ball. Drop it there, where you last tracked it.

And yes it is a different set of rules, agreed upon by those who chose to participate under these rules.

They are playing golf.

You dont like it, dont play by their rules!

[Braivo]

you estimate the point of entry to OB or you along with playing partners determine an acceptable spot to drop for a lost ball.

If it's lost, by definition you don't know where it is.  Often you have no idea at all.  All this is, is a different set of rules for those that don't like the real rules.  Meh....  Play golf.

I see David's point. If everyone plays by the same rules it is a fair competition, why do those rules need to differ from USGA rules? The outcome will still be the same, just with artificially low scores that mean nothing when compared to other golfers playing by the real rules.

These rules changes take a little something away from this competition for me, like it's just a gimmick or something. If they followed real rules I would've joined in a heartbeat.

[David in FL]

I think you are over thinking this. You hit your ball that way, over by the tree. You get there and dont find your ball. Drop it there, where you last tracked it. And yes it is a different set of rules, agreed upon by those who chose to participate under these rules. They are playing golf. You dont like it, dont play by their rules!

Sorry, but you're way under thinking I it. The rules need to account for every situation, and treat them in in the same manner. Your scenario is but one simple possibility. Have you ever played early in the morning or in the evening? Ever hit the ball directly into the sun and no one has any idea where it went? It happens all the time. I'm not going to get into another debate over the Principles behind the Rules here. We have plenty of threads for that already. My advice to the OP remains. Find a local amateur golf tour. He'll have just as much fun playing by the real rules as by some made up set, and he'll be a better golfer for it.

[turtleback]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

If the ball is lost, how do you know where to drop....?

There are plenty of amateur tours out there that play real golf. Play in them. You'll have a ton of fun, and will become a much better golfer in the process too.

you estimate the point of entry to OB or you along with playing partners determine an acceptable spot to drop for a lost ball.

How?  Many many times I have looked for a ball where I thought it should be and then later found it 50 yards away.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmer

you estimate the point of entry to OB or you along with playing partners determine an acceptable spot to drop for a lost ball.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

If it's lost, by definition you don't know where it is.  Often you have no idea at all.  All this is, is a different set of rules for those that don't like the real rules.  Meh....  Play golf.

I see David's point. If everyone plays by the same rules it is a fair competition, why do those rules need to differ from USGA rules? The outcome will still be the same, just with artificially low scores that mean nothing when compared to other golfers playing by the real rules.

These rules changes take a little something away from this competition for me, like it's just a gimmick or something. If they followed real rules I would've joined in a heartbeat.

Ah, the light comes on.  When it comes down to it, these alternative rules are about nothing more than writing down a number that is lower than the number would be under the real rules.  That is why I steadfastly argue against any change or "simplification" of the rules because of these kind of issues.  They don't play by the rules we have, what makes anyone think they would play by some other set of rules?

[Braivo]

How?  Many many times I have looked for a ball where I thought it should be and then later found it 50 yards away.

Ah, the light comes on.  When it comes down to it, these alternative rules are about nothing more than writing down a number that is lower than the number would be under the real rules.  That is why I steadfastly argue against any change or "simplification" of the rules because of these kind of issues.  They don't play by the rules we have, what makes anyone think they would play by some other set of rules?

True, my ball is usually 20 yds shorter than I thought it was, how many times would I be dropping 20 yds closer to the hole than I should have?

If you can move a ball that is sitting against a tree root or in a divot or even against the collar of the rough you are taking away aspects of the game that are challenging and important to learn.

It's like taking the inconveniently difficult parts of the game and eliminating them to make it more "fun", but then it is no longer the game as it was originally intended to be played.

[Elmer]

True, my ball is usually 20 yds shorter than I thought it was, how many times would I be dropping 20 yds closer to the hole than I should have?

If you can move a ball that is sitting against a tree root or in a divot or even against the collar of the rough you are taking away aspects of the game that are challenging and important to learn.

It's like taking the inconveniently difficult parts of the game and eliminating them to make it more "fun", but then it is no longer the game as it was originally intended to be played.

This is something my league does not do. The only time you can improve your lie is when the ground underneath is sketchy. You dont get to pull out of a bunker just because it is a bunker.

However I will always allow my opponent to move his ball away from a root. I dont need anyone busting up their equipment playing a game!

I dont want to bust my equipment!