Killing Endangered Animals for Sport? Good Idea?

[Abu3baid]

Lion Killed for sport!

Quote:

Cecil the lion, a famous black-maned resident of Zimbabwe’s Hwange National Park, died at the hands of an American dentist, conservationists claim.

Quote:

“Mr. Palmer shot Cecil with a bow and arrow but this shot didn't kill him,” Johnny Rodrigues, chairman of the Zimbabwe Conservation Task Force, said in a statement. “They tracked him down and found him 40 hours later when they shot him with a gun. Cecil, who was known all over the world would have earned millions of dollars just from sightseeing. Walter Palmer apparently paid $50,000 for the kill."

Quote:

Park rangers and regular visitors knew the 13-year-old lion as a tourist attraction, easily approached by safari guide jeeps for photo opportunities. Cecil had a propensity for lounging in the middle of roads, said Bryan Orford, a former park guide and a longtime visitor to Hwange. Hunting such an easy target only made the killing of Cecil even more wrong, he said.

I am pro-hunting and see nothing wrong in hunting animals.. However, I differentiate between hunting for Deer / Rabit / Birds where the hunter will either eat what he hunted, or sell the meat and where the hunter is hunting to just get a trophy by hunting animals like Rhinos, Lions, Tigers and any animal being hunted for the sake of the rush and glory of it.. (If someone is hunting deer for the glory, and just throws up the meat I am against that too)..

Now, comes the story of the american dentist who loves to hunt wild animals, and pays $50K to go hunt a lion, and just so happens to have people lure the lion from the protected reserve using a dead animal, and then proceed to shoot him with a bow and arrow, then track him for 40 hours and kill him with a gun..  Then come to find out this animal is actually a celeb of sorts, and one that was easily approachable by guides for photos ect.  i.e. where is the rush in the hunt if you are going after such an easy target?  You think you are a tough guy with that bow and arrow?  Go out to the wild by your self and don't lure any animals out of reserves and let us see how you do..

This makes me sick, especially when you are going after endangered animals.. Thanks buddy, you are leaving us a world with less and less animals.. soon enough, there will only be a few just like the endangered white rhino that has been poached for its horn enough that I think only 2 or 3 exist in the world.

Quote:

“The saddest part of all is that now that Cecil is dead, the next lion in the hierarchy  Jericho will most likely kill all Cecil's cubs so that he can insert his own bloodline into the females,” Rodriques said. “This is standard procedure for lions.”

let us see who will go after Jericho next?

[Ernest Jones]

Agreed. Read that story on a Twitter feed yesterday. I find so-called trophy hunting to be pretty disgusting to begin with but to ****ing lure a lion out of a protected area so you can "legally" kill it outside the park boundaries is bullshit. Sadly, I doubt much will happen to this douche bag. I'm sure he's all lawyered up to the nth degree. Hopefully the bad press loses him a lot of customers at his dental business.

[boogielicious]

Agreed. Read that story on a Twitter feed yesterday. I find so-called trophy hunting to be pretty disgusting to begin with but to ****ing lure a lion out of a protected area so you can "legally" kill it outside the park boundaries is bullshit. Sadly, I doubt much will happen to this douche bag. I'm sure he's all lawyered up to the nth degree. Hopefully the bad press loses him a lot of customers at his dental business.

He's a dentist. Maybe some wacked out animal rights person will recreate the "Is it safe" scene from Marathon Man on him .

[misty_mountainhop]

He's a dentist. Maybe some wacked out animal rights person will recreate the "Is it safe" scene from Marathon Man on him.

That would be about the right result I think.

[David in FL]

[SIZE=18px][URL=http://news.yahoo.com/american-dentist-killed-zimbabwe-famous-lion-192723625.html]Lion Killed for sport![/URL][/SIZE] I am pro-hunting and see nothing wrong in hunting animals.. However, I differentiate between hunting for Deer / Rabit / Birds where the hunter will either eat what he hunted, or sell the meat and where the hunter is hunting to just get a trophy by hunting animals like Rhinos, Lions, Tigers and any animal being hunted for the sake of the rush and glory of it.. (If someone is hunting deer for the glory, and just throws up the meat I am against that too).. Now, comes the story of the american dentist who loves to hunt wild animals, and pays $50K to go hunt a lion, and just so happens to have people lure the lion from the protected reserve using a dead animal, and then proceed to shoot him with a bow and arrow, then track him for 40 hours and kill him with a gun..  Then come to find out this animal is actually a celeb of sorts, and one that was easily approachable by guides for photos ect.  i.e. where is the rush in the hunt if you are going after such an easy target?  You think you are a tough guy with that bow and arrow?  Go out to the wild by your self and don't lure any animals out of reserves and let us see how you do.. This makes me sick, especially when you are going after endangered animals.. Thanks buddy, you are leaving us a world with less and less animals.. soon enough, there will only be a few just like the endangered white rhino that has been poached for its horn enough that I think only 2 or 3 exist in the world. let us see who will go after Jericho next?

The lion was outside of the park. There is nothing in the article that states that the hunter or his guides used bait to lure him outside of the park. Lions are not currently listed as an endangered species. Sorry, but regardless of how you feel about hunting for sport, this hunter doesn't appear to have done anything wrong. In fact, it could be argued that by harvesting a very old lion, rather than a younger one, he actually helped preserve the population. Edited to correct spelling

[misty_mountainhop]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL


The lion was outside of the park.

There is nothing in the article that states that the hunter or his guides used bate to lure him outside of the park.

Lions are not currently listed as an endangered species.

Sorry, but regardless of how you feel about hunting for sport, this hunter doesn't appear to have done anything wrong. In fact, it could be argued that by harvesting a very old lion, rather than a younger one, he actually helped preserve the population.

Huh?

Quote:

The incident occurred around July 6, with a professional hunting outfit reportedly luring Cecil outside the boundaries of the protected reserve using a dead animal as bait.

Source: http://news.yahoo.com/american-dentist-killed-zimbabwe-famous-lion-192723625.html?utm_campaign=website&utm;_source=sendgrid.com&utm;_medium=email

The man's patently an arsehole. Additionally, he already apparently has a record for illegally killing a black bear in '06. What a spineless and moronic individual.

[Abu3baid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL


The lion was outside of the park.

There is nothing in the article that states that the hunter or his guides used bate to lure him outside of the park.

Lions are not currently listed as an endangered species.

Sorry, but regardless of how you feel about hunting for sport, this hunter doesn't appear to have done anything wrong. In fact, it could be argued that by harvesting a very old lion, rather than a younger one, he actually helped preserve the population.

from the article.

hey say Walter Palmer paid $50,000 to hunt and kill Cecil with a bow and arrow. The incident occurred around July 6, with a professional hunting outfit r eportedly luring Cecil outside the boundaries of the protected reserve using a dead animal as bait.

And

Quote:

Theo Bronkhorst, the professional hunter who led Palmer to Cecil, has reportedly been suspended indefinitely from the Zimbabwe Professional Hunters and Guides Association for the way the hunt was carried out.

And

Quote:

The death of Cecil not only means one less endangered African lion in the world but also could mean the demise of a whole line of cubs sired by the leader of the Hwange pride.

Quote:

Overhunting by humans has wiped out much of lions’ prey—along with habitat loss, a major contributor to the dramatic decline in lion populations. The majestic species has vanished from more than 80 percent of its historic range and is extinct in 26 countries lions once called home. Only 20,000 remain in the wild, down from a global population of 200,000 in the 1950s.

Did you read the article??

Edit:

Lions

Quote:

African Lions Face Extinction by 2050, Could Gain Endangered Species Act Protection

[Gunther]

I read that he paid $70,000. Also that he wasn't aware the animal had been lured from the National park, the guides did that unbeknownst to him. He did nothing wrong. I'm more concerned about Planned Parenthood harvesting baby parts to sell for profit.

[Abu3baid]

I read that he paid $70,000. Also that he wasn't aware the animal had been lured from the National park, the guides did that unbeknownst to him.

He did nothing wrong. I'm more concerned about Planned Parenthood harvesting baby parts to sell for profit.

While I respect your opinion, I have to mention that plant parenthood and baby parts harvesting has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Also, please don't tell me that he didn't know that the animal was being lured?  He is paying what ever the amount, and I have a feeling he would want to be involved with every little detail.. including the lure.

His word isn't worth much right now, since he has already been convicted of lying about where he killed a black bear back in 2006.

[saevel25]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gunther

I read that he paid $70,000. Also that he wasn't aware the animal had been lured from the National park, the guides did that unbeknownst to him.

He did nothing wrong.

So innocent by being ignorant, way to go.

First, it was a lion he killed. Not some unknown creature that was on the endangered species list. Seriously, that right there should have been a tip off. Also, he should be responsible enough to actually investigate what he can and can not kill. Sounds to me he knew and is playing innocent, shift the blame.

He and the company he paid to take him hunting should be fined a lot. Him for for at minimum being irresponsible idiot.

Oh and, this comment is and doesn't add to the discussion at all.

Quote:

I'm more concerned about Planned Parenthood harvesting baby parts to sell for prof

[David in FL]

from the article.

And

And

Did you read the article??

Edit:

Lions

I read the original takepart article that you linked in your post....the one that was referenced in the Yahoo article, which I hadn't seen, but just read now.

https://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/22/zimbabwe-famous-lion-now-hunting-trophy

There is nothing in that original report to support that any of the points above.

And yes, lions are NOT currently endangered.

Like it or not, the hunter did nothing wrong.  It remains to be seen whether his guides baited the lion......though it may be perfectly legal to bait lion in Zimbabwe.  I honestly don't know, and neither article specifically says.  All that is said is that the hunt is being investigated, which is understandable and appropriate, given the notoriety of the animal.

Edited to add, apparently it is legal, and common to bait lion in Zimbabwe.

http://www.huntinginafrica.co.za/more-info/hunting-the-african-big-5/hunting-lion/

Helpful hints and tips when hunting the African lion – Hunting the African lion is traditionally done in one of two ways:

One – by baiting. Bait is set up in much the similar fashion to that of lion, excepting that the bait is not all the way up in a tree to make it accessible to the lion. Drags are created and a blind / hide is built soon as the lion starts feeding.

Two is to walk-and-stalk. Soon as fresh tracks are found, the hunt is on. The tracks are easily lost on hard ground. During the midday heat the hunter can expect to find lion in a shady spot.

[saevel25]

And yes, lions are NOT currently endangered.

Like it or not, the hunter did nothing wrong.  It remains to be seen whether his guides baited the lion......though it may be perfectly legal to bait lion in Zimbabwe.  I honestly don't know, and neither article specifically says.  All that is said is that the hunt is being investigated, which is understandable and appropriate, given the notoriety of the animal.

I always thought they were endangered.

Well played ;)

[misty_mountainhop]

...Like it or not, the hunter did nothing wrong...

Hmm. I'm afraid I have to disagree. So, the man with the small dick (I'm assuming this fact based upon what he's just done) goes to the country ruled by the despot to shoot big game (a tourist attraction FFS) that's endangered, not for food or anything else even remotely justifiable, but just so he can get off in whatever small-minded and childish fashion he somehow justifies to himself. I guess the technical legality of what he's done will come out in the end but done nothing wrong? Please. If nothing else, it confirms that evolution doesn't always produce organisms that are an 'advance' on the current model.

[Abu3baid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

I read the original takepart article that you linked in your post....the one that was referenced in the Yahoo article, which I hadn't seen, but just read now.

https://www.takepart.com/article/2015/07/22/zimbabwe-famous-lion-now-hunting-trophy

There is nothing in that original report to support that any of the points above.

And yes, lions are NOT currently endangered.

Like it or not, the hunter did nothing wrong.  It remains to be seen whether his guides baited the lion......though it may be perfectly legal to bait lion in Zimbabwe.  I honestly don't know, and neither article specifically says.  All that is said is that the hunt is being investigated, which is understandable and appropriate, given the notoriety of the animal.

The fact that lions are not yet on the endangered list doesn't really mean much... Even if something is legal doesn't mean it is right to do.. Although, It seems like Lions are on their way to being listed as threatened and then endangered soon.  Legally he might not be committing anything wrong, however that doesn't stop me from viewing him as lacking in judgement and contributing to the demise of a beautiful creature.

Quote:

The majestic species has vanished from more than 80 percent of its historic range and is extinct in 26 countries lions once called home. Only 20,000 remain in the wild, down from a global population of 200,000 in the 1950s.

Would you condone or promote the practice of shooting and hunting animals for the rush of the hunt?  Do you think it is morally a legitimate act?

[Silent]

I think what he did was wrong. That being said, I'm always a bit surprised by the massive outcry on social media etc.; when someone kills a giraffe or in this case a lion a lot of people go nuts, but when he would kill a rabbit nobody gives a damn. Also such animals probably had a much better life then the pork that will be in my plate tonight. I def. don't support hunting for fun (so I voted 'no'), but I'm also not strongly against it.

[Abu3baid]

I think what he did was wrong. That being said, I'm always a bit surprised by the massive outcry on social media etc.; when someone kills a giraffe or in this case a lion a lot of people go nuts, but when he would kill a rabbit nobody gives a damn. Also such animals probably had a much better life then the pork that will be in my plate tonight. I def. don't support hunting for fun (so I voted 'no'), but I'm also not strongly against it.

For me I differentiate between the two actions, unless they are killing the sweet little rabbit just to kill something and in that case I would be against it just like I am against killing the lion.

However, if someone is hunting a Rabbit and will plan on putting it on the dinner table, or selling it to someone who will put it on the dinner table then what's the problem?  Or if for example, someone wants Rabbit fur right.. so they go and hunt the Rabbit, eat it and then sell the Rabbit fur to someone else I see no issue in that..

Even, if someone was killing an animal for a specific purpose I would have no issue.. so for example, the tribe in Africa has historically hunted Lion because it has the best fur to use in the cold winter nights I would have no issue with that at all.. this is part of nature, and the use of the animal outweighs the life of the animal in question.. However, when the purpose is to hang the head on a wall??  That is pretty much where I draw the line..

There are many different scenarios, and I will have a different feeling in each one depending on the circumstances, so for me it isn't just a matter of I'm against the killing of animals.. the intent of the killing weigs heavily on my opinion on the subject.

I hope that made sense?

[14ledo81]

I do not trap/hunt an animal if I have no use for it.

I don't kid myself and pretend not to do it for the "thrill" though.  I could harvest a young doe literally steps from my backyard every year.  Instead I choose to go miles into the woods in hopes of having a chance at a large buck.  The young doe would certainly taste better, but would not provide any thrill.

Money from licensing and tags is a huge economical boost to many states.  If it is legal, I don't begrudge anyone their right to hunt, no matter their reason.

[David in FL]

The fact that lions are not yet on the endangered list doesn't really mean much... Even if something is legal doesn't mean it is right to do.. Although, It seems like Lions are on their way to being listed as threatened and then endangered soon.  Legally he might not be committing anything wrong, however that doesn't stop me from viewing him as lacking in judgement and contributing to the demise of a beautiful creature.

Ok then.  You're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Would you condone or promote the practice of shooting and hunting animals for the rush of the hunt?  Do you think it is morally a legitimate act?

I don't trophy hunt, but have no real objection to it, as long as it's done legally.  Hunting is a long proven method of conservation and herd management.  Managed properly, it can significantly benefit the overall animal population of a given area.