Why all the testosterone?

[Lihu]

So a 498 yard par 5 tonight I hit a nice, high draw off the sweet spot and didn't get all that much roll out. Hit it to the 200 marker. Straight hole. So the reason this one didn't go 300 was because it didn't roll forever. I still got to the fringe in 2 and had a baby chip for eagle. Was this my average distance today? Nope! Even hooked one into the trees about 150 out. I hit a few around 270 and didn't really hit driver all that much, to be honest. The point is, every round I usually get very close or on the green in 2 on most manageable par 5's. Now if it is a 570 yard par 5 that ain't happening unless I ride the cart path down hill.

Sure, but that's why you're a good 13 handicap. . .

[newtogolf]

That's only if you don't care/know about differentials. Sure, I could play forward and score some strokes better, but the differential won't improve and could quite possibly get worse. The shortest course I play is my league course. I shot a 42 there tonight, which is 7 over. For me that would be an improvement right? Wrong, with the course rating for such a short and easy course that really works out to a differential of 9 which is what I should shoot there. So, while it was nice to see a nine hole score of 7 over I knew it didn't mean much and therefore didn't really feel all the great.

You're right about that.   A regular group I play with played from the whites today.  The course had a lot of dog legs so while they were hitting driver off the tee I was hitting 3 or 4 hybrid to avoid driving it thru the fairway which neutralized the distance advantage I have.  If we played from the blues, they would likely not reach the turn on some of those holes where I would have with 3w or driver.  In the end, my score was lower than it might have been from the blues but once factored into my handicap it actually went up very slightly.

[Duff McGee]

Sure, but that's why you're a good 13 handicap. . .

Ha well thanks for that but good is a relative term. I feel like a beginner a lot of the time I'm out there.

[Dave2512]

That's only if you don't care/know about differentials. Sure, I could play forward and score some strokes better, but the differential won't improve and could quite possibly get worse. The shortest course I play is my league course. I shot a 42 there tonight, which is 7 over. For me that would be an improvement right? Wrong, with the course rating for such a short and easy course that really works out to a differential of 9 which is what I should shoot there. So, while it was nice to see a nine hole score of 7 over I knew it didn't mean much and therefore didn't really feel all the great.

It's definitely a concern for me. In CO course rating tend to be low due to effective playing length. I am fairly certain if I moved up my scores would improve more than the 1.5 rating difference. The course wouldn't just be a little shorter it would make two par 5's less than 500 yards (483/471) and the two longest par 4's would be significantly shorter, one would be nearly 3 clubs shorter on the approach with an average drive. I would also be able to carry a hazard that often plagues me on a short par 4 because the tee difference on the card is 24 yards. The two shortest par 4's would be easily drivable at 317/282, I don't usually hit driver on these holes but I would from the whites because even a poor drive gets past the trouble I lay back to avoid.  The longest par 3 on the front goes from 179 to 151 and the longest par 3 on the back from 210 to 187.

I will play up tonight and post results. My guess is my score will be 2 strokes better on the front and 3 strokes better on the back.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

That's only if you don't care/know about differentials. Sure, I could play forward and score some strokes better, but the differential won't improve and could quite possibly get worse. The shortest course I play is my league course. I shot a 42 there tonight, which is 7 over. For me that would be an improvement right? Wrong, with the course rating for such a short and easy course that really works out to a differential of 9 which is what I should shoot there. So, while it was nice to see a nine hole score of 7 over I knew it didn't mean much and therefore didn't really feel all the great.

Yeah, I have to disagree with you here as well, at least in my personal case. It's without a doubt for me that moving up to a shorter tee will improve my score by more strokes than I will "give up" in differential based on lower slope for the forward tees. Same can be said in reverse. I know there are a few guys advocating moving back a tee to help lower their index because the higher slope relates to a lower differential with the same score (as in relation to a middle tee). That would not be the case for me. I would shoot a score quite a few strokes more than what I would gain in differential by moving back. Personally - moving up would equal a lower index Moving back would equal a higher index. Even with all slope calculations involved. I don't have the length to "overcome" the extra distance. I can't shoot the same score from the back tees than I can from the middle. And in the same token, because I don't have great length, my scores from a forward tee would be much lower than from a middle tee. I can reach par 5's from the forward. I would have short irons into par 4's. The par 3's would require an accurate short iron instead of a mid or long iron. There is no question my index would drop if I played from a forward tee. The other side of this argument is the guys who have the length to overcome the extra distance from the back tee, but don't have the accuracy or the short game to benefit from moving up. That's not me though.

[Dave2512]

Couple years ago there was a thread here asking members to play the most forward tees they could and post the results comparing it to their usual tees. The results were eye opening. At the course I did it at the difference was almost 1000 yards. I can't remember exactly what I scored but it was more than ten strokes better than usual.

[Jeremie Boop]

Yeah, I have to disagree with you here as well, at least in my personal case. It's without a doubt for me that moving up to a shorter tee will improve my score by more strokes than I will "give up" in differential based on lower slope for the forward tees.

Same can be said in reverse. I know there are a few guys advocating moving back a tee to help lower their index because the higher slope relates to a lower differential with the same score (as in relation to a middle tee). That would not be the case for me. I would shoot a score quite a few strokes more than what I would gain in differential by moving back.

Personally - moving up would equal a lower index

Moving back would equal a higher index.

Even with all slope calculations involved.

I don't have the length to "overcome" the extra distance. I can't shoot the same score from the back tees than I can from the middle. And in the same token, because I don't have great length, my scores from a forward tee would be much lower than from a middle tee. I can reach par 5's from the forward. I would have short irons into par 4's. The par 3's would require an accurate short iron instead of a mid or long iron.

There is no question my index would drop if I played from a forward tee.

The other side of this argument is the guys who have the length to overcome the extra distance from the back tee, but don't have the accuracy or the short game to benefit from moving up. That's not me though.

It's definitely a concern for me. In CO course rating tend to be low due to effective playing length. I am fairly certain if I moved up my scores would improve more than the 1.5 rating difference. The course wouldn't just be a little shorter it would make two par 5's less than 500 yards (483/471) and the two longest par 4's would be significantly shorter, one would be nearly 3 clubs shorter on the approach with an average drive. I would also be able to carry a hazard that often plagues me on a short par 4 because the tee difference on the card is 24 yards. The two shortest par 4's would be easily drivable at 317/282, I don't usually hit driver on these holes but I would from the whites because even a poor drive gets past the trouble I lay back to avoid.  The longest par 3 on the front goes from 179 to 151 and the longest par 3 on the back from 210 to 187.

I will play up tonight and post results. My guess is my score will be 2 strokes better on the front and 3 strokes better on the back.

It's course dependent for sure, but the course I play:

Black Tees 72.5/126

Green*actually white now* 70.2/121

Brown 66.4/114

So, if I moved up my target score from the Brown *one up from where I normally play* is 84, however my target score from the whites is 90... That's 6 strokes difference. So, how would moving up benefit me? I don't see myself playing that much better by moving forward. For some courses that have more sets of tees maybe it would make sense, but for the places around me it just doesn't.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

It's course dependent for sure, but the course I play: Black Tees 72.5/126 Green*actually white now* 70.2/121 Brown 66.4/114 So, if I moved up my target score from the Brown *one up from where I normally play* is 84, however my target score from the whites is 90... That's 6 strokes difference. So, how would moving up benefit me? I don't see myself playing that much better by moving forward. For some courses that have more sets of tees maybe it would make sense, but for the places around me it just doesn't.

Although it may be slightly course dependent, I think it's more based on the players strengths and weaknesses. If you have the length to move back but lack the accuracy or the short game to take full advantage of the shorter forward tees, then you may improve your index by moving back. I lack the length, the extra distance would kill me. I would be playing par 4's as par 5's, and really struggle with 200 yard par 3's. Moving up however, would allow me to reach par 5's and pull scoring clubs on all other holes. My score would drop substantially. Also, your numbers are off slightly. From Green a 90 is 18.5 diff. From Brown an 84 is a 17.4 diff.

[Dave2512]

For answer is simply. At some point moving back would make some courses too difficult for me to play reasonably well. Which means moving up makes golf easier. People may not think distance hinders them but reality is the higher your handicap the more inconsistent you are with everything you do. I feel like I maybe hit 4-8 really good shots a round. My average score is 82.3 and I average 1.8 putts per hole. So of the 50ish full swing shots I average more than 40 of them are some degree of mishit. I was a bogey plus golfer just three years ago I remember exactly how wobbly my golf was and it's still not great. I didn't move back to where I play now until I got to a sub 12 handicap.

[Dave2512]

For me answer is simple. At some point moving back would make some courses too difficult for me to play reasonably well. Which means moving up makes golf easier. People may not think distance hinders them but reality is the higher your handicap the more inconsistent you are with everything you do. I feel like I maybe hit 4-8 really good shots a round. My average score is 82.3 and I average 1.8 putts per hole. So of the 50ish full swing shots I average more than 40 of them are some degree of mishit. I was a bogey plus golfer just three years ago I remember exactly how wobbly my golf was and it's still not great. I didn't move back to where I play now until I got to a sub 12 handicap. Edit: I can't edit for some reason and my posts are tough to compose because each character takes 30 seconds to show after typing it so sorry for double post.

[Duff McGee]

"We playing from the tips?" - Geico Caveman.

[bkuehn1952]

... every round I usually get very close or on the green in 2 on most manageable par 5's....

Unless you hook it into the woods!  ;)

[Duff McGee]

Unless you hook it into the woods!  ;)

Ha who is this? How do you know my game so well?