My Swing (Yossarian)

[SunkTheBirdie]

 

Cool rear view.

I like how it picks both heels off the ground as you really try to hit it hard.

I know the trend over the last decade is to not comment on grips ... strong grips are allowed now.

But that left hand seems really really strong.

 

[billchao]

2 hours ago, Yossarian said:

Ok, still working on a better rotation.

It probably does not look right yet, but I think it's an improvement.

The positive thing is, I have gained at least 7-8 yards, at least according to the Swing Caddie. I guess it's because additional speed comes from the rotation

 

The bad thing is that I gained a Hook as well. What I don't understand is why I am hooking despite still having an evident OTT downswing. (see below: start straight, goes horribly right)

 

Check your grip. It's way too strong. Your trail hand is completely wrapped under the club.

You're swinging OTT because you're pulling the club underplane and then tipping it "over" to be more on plane. You're actually still under in the downswing and the result is you're swinging too much inside out. Look at your A6, your clubhead is way inside your hands. You actually hit a pull with clubface closed due to grip, but that path will curve the ball too much to the right unless you block it and hit straight pushes.

I'd watch how you load that right arm. You pull it tight across your chest and pull your left elbow behind you. Here's a good video explaining it:

 

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Yossarian said:

The bad thing is that I gained a Hook as well. What I don't understand is why I am hooking despite still having an evident OTT downswing. (see below: start straight, goes horribly right)

Of course you have…

1 hour ago, SunkTheBirdie said:

I know the trend over the last decade is to not comment on grips ... strong grips are allowed now.

But that left hand seems really really strong.

It is. Very.

4 minutes ago, billchao said:

Check your grip. It's way too strong. Your trail hand is completely wrapped under the club.

Yep.

4 minutes ago, billchao said:

You're swinging OTT because you're pulling the club underplane and then tipping it "over" to be more on plane. You're actually still under in the downswing and the result is you're swinging too much inside out. Look at your A6, your clubhead is way inside your hands. You actually hit a pull with clubface closed due to grip, but that path will curve the ball too much to the right unless you block it and hit straight pushes.

To echo this…

You're well across, and compensate by going well under. Hook city.

[Yossarian]

thanks @iacas @billchao@SunkTheBirdie for the very informative comments, I really appreciate that someone finds the time to analyze my troubled swing.

I am working on the suggestions and when I see some changes in the swing I will post an update.

As far as the uber strong grip, there is a part of my brain that keep saying "if Paul Azinger could find a way around it, I can still use it", but probably I should not listen to it

I would like to change topic a little. I know the "why my practice swing is different than the actual swing?" subject has been discussed many times. For what I understand, it has to do with the fact that when the ball is not present, you don't have to pay attention to square the face at impact. And in fact, if I record a slow motion practice swing, the face is wide open at impact.

What I don't understand is why in a practice swing I find so much easier to transfer the weight on the right side. I've always thought and seen that a good downswing starts with a "bump" of the hips to the right side. In the first video, even with a bad backswing, without proper pivot rotation, I can move without effort the weight (even too much); in the second I never fully transfer it. Why?

 

 

[billchao]

19 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

What I don't understand is why in a practice swing I find so much easier to transfer the weight on the right side. I've always thought and seen that a good downswing starts with a "bump" of the hips to the right side. In the first video, even with a bad backswing, without proper pivot rotation, I can move without effort the weight (even too much); in the second I never fully transfer it. Why?

It's not your pritority, so I wouldn't even worry about it. You get plenty of pressure forward and your hips slide a little like they should.

Your practice swing hip movement is way exaggerated and not good, IMO. Your whole body is sliding forward and if you actually hit the ball like that, you'll make your hook problem worse.

[Yossarian]

Hello there! Ok, I worked on it, let's see if it has improved.

The grip: I know...

The direction: on good days it's a nice draw, like in the 2 down the line videos, on bad days it's still hook city.

Feeling at impact: it's great (especially on the mats 😉)

I have been told that I don't have a good rotation of the hips, not very open at impact; however when I try to rotate more it hooks badly.  There are 2 swings per video, in the second swings I try to keep my weight on the heels both on back and down swing, I don't see a lot of difference.

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

[billchao]

It honestly looks about the same to me, but I don't have a program to plug it into to compare.

[Yossarian]

2 hours ago, billchao said:

It honestly looks about the same to me, but I don't have a program to plug it into to compare.

After posting, I went back looking at the video that @iacas analyzed, and I still see the over-under thing. Somehow now I get the face a bit open at impact, so if I am lucky the hook turns in to a draw; I saw your 5SK  video but I still can't tell my brain to stay on plane...

... oh well, let's try with something different (?), the driver:

distance wise, I am ok with it. (245-250 on a well struck ball). I would like to be more consistent in the direction: usually it's either straight/slight push (first down the line video), a draw, or an horrific low flying hook (second down the line video)

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Yossarian

[billchao]

2 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

I would like to be more consistent in the direction: usually it's either straight/slight push (first down the line video), a draw, or an horrific low flying hook (second down the line video)

That's not surprising. Your errors are going to be magnified with a longer and lower-lofted club. All of those flights are the result of the the too far out path and various face orientations at impact.

Your grip is way too strong. You're always going to be underplane with it.

Here you are at A2. You've barely turned, all you're doing is lifting the arms with no rotation and the club is still underplane. If you turned properly with that grip, the clubhead would probably be behind you at this point.

If you want to change your swing, you're going to have to change your grip IMO.

[Yossarian]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:45 PM, billchao said:

If you want to change your swing, you're going to have to change your grip IMO.

Thanks for the answer

I think a lot of high handicappers who like me did not receive proper "basic education" when they started playing (I took my first lesson 8-9 years after), they tend to have a strong/too strong grip. My opinion (but I'd like to hear from people more expert than me) is that a grip like this simplifies the swing, because it takes out of the equation the forearms rotation, so to square the face you only have to pay attention to time correctly the cocking/uncocking. So when I practice with a less strong grip (which usually results in a very open face at impact), it feels kind of counter intuitive that adding a new "degree of freedom" would help me have a more consistent face orientation or path at impact.

[billchao]

21 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

My opinion (but I'd like to hear from people more expert than me) is that a grip like this simplifies the swing, because it takes out of the equation the forearms rotation, so to square the face you only have to pay attention to time correctly the cocking/uncocking.

You're still rotating your forearms. It kind of just happens naturally as you turn and lift your arms. If you didn't rotate your forearms at all in the backswing, the clubhead would be somewhere above your head with the shaft pointing to a spot on the ground behind you in the DTL view.

23 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

So when I practice with a less strong grip (which usually results in a very open face at impact), it feels kind of counter intuitive that adding a new "degree of freedom" would help me have a more consistent face orientation or path at impact.

You already have a pretty consistent path. Yours is too far out, resulting in pushes, but curves, and hooks. If you want to reduce the severity of the misses, you need to neutralize the path a bit.

The fix isn't just to change your grip. It starts with changing your grip, but you need to turn more and get the hand depth through proper rotation instead of overloading your lead arm across your chest.

If all you did was weaken your grip and changed nothing else about your swing, of course it's going to produce weird results. Your strong grip and that swing are married at this point.

[iacas]

Man, hey, take a look at that grip, eh? SUPER strong.

[Yossarian]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:33 PM, iacas said:

Man, hey, take a look at that grip, eh? SUPER strong.

Eh, I know. I will post a video one of the next few days of my heinous tests with a more neutral grip (spoiler: they all end with a face wide open at impact and other issues).

However, I still struggle to see why it is so important. I get it for whoever practices this sport at a high competitive level, for what I understand a neutral (or at least not terribly strong) grip helps controlling the face and shaping the shots. But I have seen so many weekend players that have a grip like mine and manage to stay in the low 80s, and that's my ultimate goal.

For instance, I found this picture in the forum:

What the strong grip does for me is simplifying the release: basically I just have to get the right timing to get from Radial Deviation to a neutral position, like you to when you  are hammering a nail. The more neutral the grip is, the more you add in to the equation Pronation and Supination.

 

[Yossarian]

I took a lesson and the teacher focused on a more bent position at address (he also tried to change my grip, of course, but I am stubborn).

The good thing is that it straightened the path, now on a good strike it creates a decent fade.

 

The face on video shows all the problems I have with a different grip: face way always open at impact, and it finds the bottom before the ball. I am casting it and I am not sure why. Even when I manage (randomly) to have a good timing of the release and square the face , the second issue is still there, instead of hitting or compressing the ball, I am merely pushing it

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Yossarian

[iacas]

On 10/9/2018 at 5:16 PM, Yossarian said:

Eh, I know. I will post a video one of the next few days of my heinous tests with a more neutral grip (spoiler: they all end with a face wide open at impact and other issues).

However, I still struggle to see why it is so important. I get it for whoever practices this sport at a high competitive level, for what I understand a neutral (or at least not terribly strong) grip helps controlling the face and shaping the shots. But I have seen so many weekend players that have a grip like mine and manage to stay in the low 80s, and that's my ultimate goal.

What the strong grip does for me is simplifying the release: basically I just have to get the right timing to get from Radial Deviation to a neutral position, like you to when you  are hammering a nail. The more neutral the grip is, the more you add in to the equation Pronation and Supination.

Yeah, you're "cheating" but the thing is, that "cheating" causes other things to be necessary.

You need other compensations for the ridiculously strong grip in order to make it "work" but you're setting a lower ceiling (or a higher floor, depending on how you view it - ability to play good golf or handicap index) because of all of those compensations.

A stronger grip lets you "fake" the shaft lean a bit more, and is why I prefer a grip that is slightly too strong over one that's slightly too weak, but you're well beyond "slightly."

[Carl3]

I wish I had   @Yossarian flexibility!!!

[Yossarian]

On 10/14/2018 at 12:18 PM, Carl3 said:

I wish I had   @Yossarian flexibility!!!

I wish I had your Handicap! haha

Actually, that kind of swing + the seat in my audi TT brings a lot of lower back pain...

 

[Yossarian]

Ok, so working on one thing at a time.

I have been told that I don't do a lot of upper body rotation with the driver, I just pull the arms.

So, I tried to improve that. I try to rotate, bring down the right shoulder and try to keep the spine angle during the downswing. The result:

+ 20/25yards more on well struck hits

- however, most of times at impact the sweet spot of the face in below where it should be (see face on video). Best case scenario I bottom out early and I hit it with a positive angle of attack, worst case it's ballooning

- also, the direction is still way more erratic than my original swing

One thing I clearly notice is that I raise during the backswing, but if anything, it should raise my plane, or not?

Basically, I am trying to understand if I should keep working in this direction

In the On the line video, the first swing is the "new", the second is the "old"