how long to get to scratch?

[artfulgolfer]

I dont know if id go as far as to say if you're not single after a year then you'll never be scratch. That may be narrowing it down a little much. Different people have different levels of progression. And alot of different factors come in to play. I began to play around 3 or 4 times a week in my 2nd year. It was around my 2nd year when i started thinking i could be good at this game. And sort of really caught the bug, got some good equip. and started practising my short game (putting/chipping) a few times a week. At the end of that season i was a single. 3 years later.. I dont think i'll ever be scratch unless i can fully rehab my back so im able to play 3 or 4 times a week again and possibly move in to a warmer climate.

Very true. We all progress very differently. I'm just saying that if after 1 year of "serious" effort (frequent play and practice) you're not well on your way to breaking 80 regularly and getting to single digits, then getting to scratch seems unlikely (not impossible). I'm not referring to the years played recreationally or pre-teen.

Your story is a good example of someone who I think CAN get to scratch. You got into the single digits after 1 year of effort. And like me, your back is limiting how much you can practice and play. My progression is very much like yours. I played once a week my first year (got down to 10), then joined a men's club and started practicing and playing more my 2nd year (and got down to 4). Like you, I'm not sure I'll ever get to scratch. It really does take the kind of time and effort albatroz suggests! I'd still like to hear from someone who IS a scratch golfer. I'm still willing to bet that they got to single digits quickly and easily.

[crazy_horst]

WOW, low 80s after 6 months?

I shot an 86 after about 3-4 months, but the thing is, it took me 2+ years after that to break that mark (when I did, it was by 10 - shot 76). Thing is, the OP says he can shoot low 80's "after a swing change". I don't mean to be discouraging, but you've got a lot of "swing changes" ahead of you only having played for 6 months, and only time will tell if this one holds on.

Six months is a blink of an eye in a golf lifetime. Some people can start off well on sheer athletic ability, but when you really get into the game and all its facets/intricacies... we'll see, but you might be surprised. Most steps forward are accompanied shortly thereafter by 3 or 4 backwards, at least until you get some experience under your belt.

[artfulgolfer]

Here's an interesting perspective about becoming a good golfer:

http://www.lakesidepress.com/Golf/GolfSecrets.htm

BTW, although this thread is about getting to scratch, it should be noted that although this goal is unachievable for most of us, enjoying golf isn't. I have a lot more fun playing that many much better golfers I play with ;)

[golf_junkie27]

Just a piece of advice that I received and wanted to share. Look at your scorecards, count the amount of strokes, find what comprised those strokes and divide your practice time, accordingly. For example:

You shoot an 84. You had 33 putts. You had 18 tee shots, you had 17 second shots, and 16 shots comprised of chips/punches/etc. You would then spend a third of your time putting, 20 percent on tee shots and 50 percent on approach shots and chipping.

Practice as you actually played. This will improve your game and increase your course management awareness. The result will be shaving strokes off your game and hopefully achieve your goal of scratch.

[lynchjo]

The key to golf mastery and becoming a scratch golfer is simplicity.

Golf is actually really simple, but we insist on making it complicated.

You can increase your understanding of any complex subject by progressing from the simple to the complex.

Take the fundamentals of a sound golf game and divide it into the following five parts and focus
on these ONLY.

1.The grip.
2.The setup.
3.The back swing.
4.The down swing.
5.The short game (chipping, sand play, and putting)

Master each one of these parts, and becoming a scratch golfer will not be too difficult.

By understanding the simple, you can understand the complex.

Becoming a scratch golfer is simple after you have arrived at it.

But it is simple only when you know what IT is.

Nothing is simpler than greatness: for to be simple is to be great.

Divide your golf game into simple parts, master each part, and you will become a great golfer!

Hit 'em long & staright!

[artfulgolfer]

Notice we still have no responses from a scratch golfer! That should be hint #1... they spend their time at the course, not their computer ;)

[Socrates]

I believe that a lot of people are better based on where they play as well. I've been talking to people about this and one guy was telling me about how he has really dropped his scores this past year. His solution, in my mind, he predominately plays at a muni course that is really short - driving par 4's is not that difficult (5's in 2 as well) as where before he was playing an actual course with par 4's that required more than a half swing 60 degree second shots - the other thing being that this course is wide open and there really is no OB or obstructions when you hit bad shots for that matter. Its a little late now, but it would be interesting to get course stats from the players that improved dramatically in short periods of time. Rating, slope, what tee you're playing etc...

[lynchjo]

Here is an interesting Zen parable I'd like to share with you all...it applies to our quest in becoming scratch golfers...this story is based on the "parable of the four horses" written by a Zen Master and master swordsman almost 800 years ago...

Golf And The Four Horses

In the “Shime” chapter of the Shobogenzo, Zen Master Dogen Zenji discusses the “four horses,” which is a metaphor used by the Buddha in the Samyuta-Agama sutra. This metaphor of the four horses speaks about how we are when we practice the game of golf— four, one could say, classes of students.

The first horse, the superior class, is like a horse that runs fastest by merely feeling the whip's shadow. The second horse, the good class, runs fastest when the whip brushes its hair, the hair of its mane. The third horse, the poor class, runs fastest where the whip has actually touched its flesh. And the fourth, the lowest kind of horse, is the one who runs fastest only when the whip can be felt to the marrow of its bones.

At first glance we all want to be like the first horse in the superior class. These are the fast learners...the ones who seem to be a natural. Dogen Zenji says this may not be so desirable. A study of master golfers has shown that it is not the students with innate natural abilities who have achieved golf mastery. The golfers who have achieved mastery are mostly the students with average to below average natural abilities...the ones who have practiced their craft diligently. This is very interesting...why is this so?

The road to golf mastery for ALL students has many plateaus in skill levels interrupted by brief spikes in improvements. When the first class of student takes up golf they see an immediate spike in improvement in their skill level and are very motivated. When they reach that ultimate first plateau where they do not improve despite hard practice, most gifted students get discouraged.

Gifted students are used to seeing fast progress, so they may blame the golf instructor or something else just so they don't have to put in the hard work that is needed to attain mastery. Many superior students will then give up the game due to frustration.

Superior athletes who never make it big are seen in ALL sports. We all have heard countless stories about gifted athletes who never made it big because they weren’t willing to put the time in needed to reach their innate potential.

The fourth class of student will see slow improvements, much time spent on plateaus in their skill level. If the fourth class of golf student stays with it and practices hard they will learn the golf swing to the marrow of their bones, like the fourth horse.

Before you can master ANY skill, you need to learn the skill to the marrow of your bones. To learn golf to the marrow of your bones you need to stay at each skill level for however long it takes. Most first class students never learn the skill to the marrow of their bones because it comes easy to them. The time spent on plateaus for students who learn fast are shorter than the ones who learn slower.

The paradox of the four horses parable is we must practice like the fourth class of horse to become like the first class of horse.

[buggyman]

Notice we still have no responses from a scratch golfer! That should be hint #1... they spend their time at the course, not their computer ;)

it took me between 3-4 years to get to a +2 hcp which is the best I ever got. Now I am a .5 or 1 and just started playing again after a 5-6 year break. I play 4 times a month, on Saturday mornings. I try to get to the range 1-2 times a week, just because I enjoy practicing and my game is already there.

Like someone else said also, he enjoys golf more than some of his better playing buddies. Getting to scratch is a HUGE sacrifice. Then when and if you get there you loose some of the enjoyment of golf, because you become so hard on yourself to shoot good scores. If I don't shoot under a 75 I used to leave the course mad. NOw I am unhappy with myself but enjoy the game again.

[artfulgolfer]

I believe that a lot of people are better based on where they play as well. I've been talking to people about this and one guy was telling me about how he has really dropped his scores this past year. His solution, in my mind, he predominately plays at a muni course that is really short - driving par 4's is not that difficult (5's in 2 as well) as where before he was playing an actual course with par 4's that required more than a half swing 60 degree second shots - the other thing being that this course is wide open and there really is no OB or obstructions when you hit bad shots for that matter. Its a little late now, but it would be interesting to get course stats from the players that improved dramatically in short periods of time. Rating, slope, what tee you're playing etc...

A course's ease or difficulty is taken into account when establishing an index. If you shoot a par round at an easy muni, that's not a 0 index (e.g. rating below 72.0). If the rating is something like 68, you'd have to shoot 68's to call yourself a scratch golfer.

The course I played the most in getting my index down from 16 to 4 is www.monarchdunes.com - Gold Tees (70.7/135).... not an easy course!

[Shindig]

it took me between 3-4 years to get to a +2 hcp which is the best I ever got. Now I am a .5 or 1 and just started playing again after a 5-6 year break. I play 4 times a month, on Saturday mornings. I try to get to the range 1-2 times a week, just because I enjoy practicing and my game is already there.

This is a matter of setting the wrong goals for a round. I used to obsess over a small barrier too. Then I shot a 116 shortly after breaking 100 (different course), and got upset.

Try setting goals of committing to each shot, not rushing your pre-shot routine, etc. You'll be happy regardless of your score, and I bet you will score better too.

[gortyl]

i do subscribe to the theory that some folks are predisposed to never being able to reach scratch. i'd say there are definitely people out there who could practice all they wanted and never reach scratch. i'm probably one of them. i'm not saying i won't improve. on the contrary, i will improve, but i'll probably max out in the mid-single digits or so. when i got serious about golf about 4-5 years ago and began keeping track of my handicap, i was about a 28. in fact i remember in late 04 when i went to scotland, i had to lie about my handicap to carnoustie because they had a maximum men's handicap rule. i was a 26 and told them 22. so in four years, i got to where i am today - 8.8.

i have played around 80 times this year. but i have a couple friends who have played less than 12 times who consistently score about the same as i do or better. most of us probably have friends like this. some are blessed with a good, smooth swing that they can repeat. i'm not one of them. i have to work and work and work on my golf swing to keep it "usable". if i lay off for a few weeks, i'm done man.

an analogy that i think may fit is throwing a baseball. i played college baseball and threw a fastball probably 86-87 at my peak (18 handicap). it wouldn't have mattered how much i stretched, threw, lifted or trained, i was not ever going to throw 98, period. you have to be blessed to throw 98 (scratch). you probably don't start out throwing 98, but when you go out for your high school team, you're throwing in the low-90s (single digit handicap) - you have a chance!

[sbgolfin_06]

Funny you should say that. I am currently separated from my wife because of that exact thing. She tried to control how often I could play. Well that sure isn't going to happen. Sucks though, I am getting really tired of giving away all my stuff every 10 years. I need to find a woman who understands my golf addiction and can deal with it. Do they exist?

once i read this message, i definitely felt inclined to respond to this thread. first off, yes, they do exist

.. but only when the woman is also addicted to the game. (btw, woman speaking here..) i was introduced to golf when i was about 16(about 7 yrs ago) by my dad, but i only lasted for 2 months because i thought it was dorky and stuck with traditional team sports. in my junior year in college, i worked at a golf course for 2 1/2 months, hit hundreds of balls a night, but never played. got a few lessons too, but stopped suddenly again as graduation approached. this february, i decided that i wanted to really give it a go and see how low i could go while putting the most effort/money/time possible without going broke(i work full time and am supporting myself here). so i started with lessons seriously in march and played my first 18-hole round later that month. to make a long story short, i played almost once a week over the summer and joined a club in september. my coach had been telling me that i had improved so quickly that he wanted me to get a handicap and start playing in tournaments. so i did. and right when i joined the club, i started breaking into the mid and low 80s. as a female, playing from the white tees with my dad, this has substantially lowered my handicap to an 11-12. anyway, ive been thinking of joining this site for a while and posting updates as i go, but wasnt sure if it would be of any interest.. the guys in the golf shop think i can get to a 7 by next Feb., but think that the rest of the strokes will be really hard to drop.. i agree, but i like the challenge so thats where im at right now.. if anyone is interested in my progress let me know, and ill keep posting. Good luck all!

[Chilidipper]

I like your analogy I agree with that theory. I think the predisposition has more to do with the putting, chipping, and nervs. Another biggie is course management but I think that can be learned no matter who you are. Bottom line in my opinion is allowing your brain to work and not messing up the routine putt or shot. I agree some people are blessed to hit it 300+ with a smooth stroke. I think can help your scoring if you play with good course management, but I still put my stock into putting and chipping.

[tm22721]

After three years and beaucoup lessons I have barely made it to bogey. I don't think I'll be entertaining thoughts of scratch any time soon.

I play every weekday for the exercise by walking and carrying my bag but almost never play 18 so my 'handicap' is only a guesstimate.

Ball contact is my problem many shots are mishits (way fat or thin), but they go straight because of a good swing plane. I have improved only because I have learned how to play the odds and recover from bad shots. I never go above 5 iron even on tee shots because why risk it ? The longest par 5 at my local course is only 450 yards.

I have studied the physics and the mechanics of the swing ad infinitum through many books and videos. I have too many swing thoughts and consistent tempo seems elusive. I have a 350 yard range in the backyard yet more practice only seems to hurt, not help.

The good news is that I do have a picture perfect swing with all of the lessons and studying, camcorder etc.

[artfulgolfer]

if anyone is interested in my progress let me know, and ill keep posting.

Great progress sbgolfin! and yes, feel free to post your ongoing progress. BTW, I highly recommend the book Extraordinary Golf by Fred Shoemaker. I credit this book substantially for my progress.

[artfulgolfer]

I have too many swing thoughts and consistent tempo seems elusive.

I'm sure you wouldn't study the mechanics of shooting a basket or throwing a ball to first base, or think about anything other than the target with either of those activities... so why make golf different? Just trust that your body knows how to do something as simple as hit a ball that's just sitting there and tell it what you want it to do by focusing only on your intended target. When your body fails to do so, it's usually because you've let other interfering thoughts enter in (or invited them in by using swing thoughts).

[FIJIGolf23]

once i read this message, i definitely felt inclined to respond to this thread. first off, yes, they do exist

I gotta find a girl like you. Now that I know they exist I can begin my search.