Illegal wedge?

[pdeagle84]

 

Hi Guys,

 

 new on here. Long story short(ish)...

I play with a Cleveland Smart sole (1st edition) chipper/chipping wedge. I am constantly getting banter from my mates I regularly play with who say it is an illegal club. The USGA database only lists the 2.0 edition as being legal and has no record of the first one. I would LOVE to say for 100% to them that it isn't illegal, I hope someone can help me with a link or something to say for 100% that it ok to play with.

They mainly give me crap because I am playing so well under 100 yds with this club! So I hope for my sake I don't have to bin it now...

[mvmac]

I can't find anything on the 1st edition Smart Soles, are you sure that's what they're called?

Doesn't say anything about them being illegal here. A company like Cleveland is unlikely to come out with anything illegal. 

http://www.golf.com/equipment/cleveland-smart-sole-wedges-golf-magazine-clubtest-2014-best-golf-wedges

[Marty2019]

  On 1/6/2016 at 5:52 AM, pdeagle84 said:

 

Hi Guys,

 

 new on here. Long story short(ish)...

I play with a Cleveland Smart sole (1st edition) chipper/chipping wedge. I am constantly getting banter from my mates I regularly play with who say it is an illegal club. The USGA database only lists the 2.0 edition as being legal and has no record of the first one. I would LOVE to say for 100% to them that it isn't illegal, I hope someone can help me with a link or something to say for 100% that it ok to play with.

They mainly give me crap because I am playing so well under 100 yds with this club! So I hope for my sake I don't have to bin it now...

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Thanks for the advertisement.  I'll check them out. 

[gregsandiego]

It does look a little odd. That's the back of the club in the photo right? What do your friends think is illegal about it?

I've also been experimenting with Cleveland wedges lately and like them. 

Interesting fact from their Wikipedia page:

Cleveland golf as of 2016 will not make irons or metal woods any longer. Srixon golf has partnered with cleveland to make a line of high end irons and metal woods. The Cleveland name will carry on in the way of wedges and putters.

Edited January 6, 2016 by gregsandiego
more info

[SavvySwede]

Any idea when the original version was made? If it was made before the new groove rule it could have nonconforming grooves.

[Fourputt]

  On 1/6/2016 at 1:53 PM, SavvySwede said:

Any idea when the original version was made? If it was made before the new groove rule it could have nonconforming grooves.

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But those grooves are only nonconforming for high level competitions (i.e. professional or USGA championships and the like), not for the amateur club golfer, as long as it was not manufactured after 2010.

[SavvySwede]

  On 1/6/2016 at 4:09 PM, Fourputt said:

But those grooves are only nonconforming for high level competitions, not for the amateur club golfer, as long as it was not manufactured after 2010.

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I still wouldn't play it, not a fan of bifurcated rules.

[Fourputt]

  On 1/6/2016 at 4:12 PM, SavvySwede said:

I still wouldn't play it, not a fan of bifurcated rules.

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That's your choice.  I'm just trying to be sure that no disinformation gets passed around.  I don't have any pre 2010 wedges in my bag either, although I have a pre 2010 Vokey SW in my garage, and sometimes in my bag.  I'll use it or not as seems necessary, and I won't lose any sleep over it, although I'm more inclined to change over to my Cleveland CG-15 full time this year and retire the Vokey.  

[mvmac]

  On 1/6/2016 at 1:23 PM, gregsandiego said:

Interesting fact from their Wikipedia page:

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Makes sense since Srixon (who owns Cleveland) is upping their presence on tour and in golf stores in the U.S.  

[vangator]

  On 1/6/2016 at 4:09 PM, Fourputt said:

But those grooves are only nonconforming for high level competitions (i.e. professional or USGA championships and the like), not for the amateur club golfer, as long as it was not manufactured after 2010.

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My league specifically states USGA rules apply unless local rules override and those are just what is printed on the scorecard with respect to OB etc.  We can't play non conforming clubs since we get our handicap from our league. 

But in friendly play, the group just has to agree.  I have a wedge called "Rip Stop".  That thing will stop a ball on glass.  I do not play that wedge at all anymore.  It was a definite advantage.  Rips up a ball too.

[Fourputt]

  On 1/6/2016 at 5:29 PM, vangator said:

My league specifically states USGA rules apply unless local rules override and those are just what is printed on the scorecard with respect to OB etc.  We can't play non conforming clubs since we get our handicap from our league. 

But in friendly play, the group just has to agree. 

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The USGA rules allow it.  Those wedges are good until 2024.  The USGA plan calls for them to review the collected data in 2020 and make a determination then whether to continue the ban or just allow it to revert.  It does not require a local rule to allow them.  This is the timeline:

  Quote

January 2010 -- All new products submitted by manufacturers for USGA approval must conform to the new groove rule. All PGA Tour (and the U.S. Open) events will use new grooves.
 

January 2011 -- Manufacturers can no longer manufacture products with the pre-2010 grooves and can no longer ship products with the pre-2010 grooves. Retailers can continue to sell clubs shipped to them before this date as conforming clubs indefinitely.
 

January 2014 -- All USGA and R&A championships will require the new grooves (U.S. Amateur, U.S. Mid Amateur, etc.).
 

January 2020 -- The USGA will review the current rule and determine if it has had the desired effect.

January 2024 -- If the USGA approves of the direction the new groove rule is taking, this is the first possible date that golfers will need to have the new grooves to post scores for handicap purposes.

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Note the last sentence in the quote.

[vangator]

  On 1/6/2016 at 6:03 PM, Fourputt said:

The USGA rules allow it.  Those wedges are good until 2024.  The USGA plan calls for them to review the collected data in 2020 and make a determination then whether to continue the ban or just allow it to revert.  It does not require a local rule to allow them.  This is the timeline:

Note the last sentence in the quote.

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Interesting.  So I can play that baby legally? 

How about those 750 CC drivers?  I found one of those at the flea market for a great price, but I thought why buy it if I can't really use it except for messing around.

[Fourputt]

  On 1/6/2016 at 6:10 PM, vangator said:

Interesting.  So I can play that baby legally? 

How about those 750 CC drivers?  I found one of those at the flea market for a great price, but I thought why buy it if I can't really use it except for messing around.

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If a club has never been legal it isn't going to be legal now.  That's a rather silly question.  As far as the wedge you had the photo of, if it was a conforming club, then it is allowed now.  I don't know as I'm not familiar with it.

[Missouri Swede]

  On 1/6/2016 at 6:10 PM, vangator said:

How about those 750 CC drivers?  I found one of those at the flea market for a great price, but I thought why buy it if I can't really use it except for messing around.

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460 cc is the limit.  The list of conforming driver heads is here

[vangator]

  On 1/6/2016 at 6:25 PM, Fourputt said:

If a club has never been legal it isn't going to be legal now.  That's a rather silly question.  As far as the wedge you had the photo of, if it was a conforming club, then it is allowed now.  I don't know as I'm not familiar with it.

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I did some searching on the web for Rip Stop and all I find is that they are illegal.  I have a 60, 64 and 68 Rip Stop.  Too bad.  I've never been a guy that gets a lot of back spin.  I have a low trajectory and am not real handsy.  Best I can do is get the ball to stop within a few inches of it's spot.  Usually it rolls a few feet forward even with a 60 degree wedge.

[gregsandiego]

  On 1/6/2016 at 4:18 PM, mvmac said:

Makes sense since Srixon (who owns Cleveland) is upping their presence on tour and in golf stores in the U.S.  

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Not off topic. Just peripheral.

[mvmac]

  On 1/7/2016 at 4:25 AM, gregsandiego said:

Not off topic. Just peripheral.

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Yeah I was just calling my own post OT.