AJGA Rules Suck

[iacas]

3 hours ago, k-troop said:

Point taken.  I think my point still stands, though it would require a complex understanding of NCAA transfer rules (which I don't possess) to make it.  Regardless my rationale #1 would clearly favor allowing a college student who is fully transfer eligible to compete in an AJGA event (assuming they still met the other criteria of junior-ness).

And @turtleback you may need to cut back on the red meat, have a SALAD or something. 

Many players have to sit out a full year when they transfer.

There's a bit more here, and elsewhere, on the Internet: http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/current/want-transfer .

[dak4n6]

On Wednesday, February 10, 2016 at 1:41 PM, hcopenhagenh said:

I have read through this entire thread and joined this site specifically for this thread.  Let me give you some background.

 

I have a 16 year old daughter that has been playing golf for 3.5 years. She has been playing tournament golf for 3 year.  She shot 110 108 in her first tournament and within 6 months was shooting mid to low 80's and was a huge contributor to her State Final high school team.  Just three years playing tournament golf and she holds a 0.3 handicap, is a highly ranked junior golfer, and has several D1 schools recruiting her.  She has played in 3 consecutive state high school tournaments.  She is also our club champion shooting a 72 73, which is not a big deal at all because they play from such short a distance.  Should have been under par, but it was a really windy day.

I say all that because the best thing that happened to her is that I wasn't able to caddie.  She learned to play the game on her own.  She learned to scramble from the get go and learned that you need to spend time on the putting greens.  She learned that the game was 100 yards and on in.  Had I caddied she would have never learned the game and never would have been as good as she is today.

That isn't to say I haven't caddied for her because I have, but only in USGA or FSGA Amateur events.  It is for moral support only, get a yardage, rake a bunker, clean a club, etc.

 

I have a 9 year old son that is a very good junior golfer (has played in the World Championships).  We started off with US Kids which put on decent events.  I was excited to get caddie although I did hear of horror stories.  First tournament we played in we stood on the green on hole one.  Two parents were adjacent to us on hole 8 caddying for their kids.  We hear yelling, cursing, and then one of the parents chasing the other.  I held me head down to the ground in shame, shaking my head, thinking "What did I get us into?".  Fortunately, that was the only fight I have seen.

It gets tiresome seeing Daddy Caddies tee up the ball for their kid, line them up to hit the shot, line them up to putt.  My caddying duties go as far as pulling a club, making a suggestion, raking a bunker, cleaning a club, and being there for moral support.  Too many of these kids can't play when they have to do it on their own because Daddy does it all for them.  My kid still beats them and I don't really do anything but watch.

I can't wait until the day comes when he CAN'T have a caddie any more.  More than anything else, I hate being around the other parents caddying for their children.  Parents want their kids to be perfect so a 4 and a half hour round becomes 6 hour rounds.  You then have to hear them coach their child after a bad shot.  You have to hear the parents ask "Why did you just do that."  It becomes a huge nuisance for the other players in the round by have just one caddie do this stuff.

In my opinion, if a 15 year old needs a caddie for a junior tournament then they shouldn't be playing in junior tournaments.

Your daughter is amazing. She should go straight to pro.

My daughter is not so amazing. I should tell her to just quit.

[Lihu]

2 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Your daughter is amazing. She should go straight to pro.

My daughter is not so amazing. I should tell her to just quit.

I hope she doesn't read this thread.

 

On 2/10/2016 at 10:41 AM, hcopenhagenh said:

I have a 16 year old daughter that has been playing golf for 3.5 years. She has been playing tournament golf for 3 year.  She shot 110 108 in her first tournament and within 6 months was shooting mid to low 80's and was a huge contributor to her State Final high school team.  Just three years playing tournament golf and she holds a 0.3 handicap, is a highly ranked junior golfer, and has several D1 schools recruiting her.  She has played in 3 consecutive state high school tournaments.  She is also our club champion shooting a 72 73, which is not a big deal at all because they play from such short a distance.  Should have been under par, but it was a really windy day.  

I say all that because the best thing that happened to her is that I wasn't able to caddie.  She learned to play the game on her own.  She learned to scramble from the get go and learned that you need to spend time on the putting greens.  She learned that the game was 100 yards and on in.  Had I caddied she would have never learned the game and never would have been as good as she is today.  

That isn't to say I haven't caddied for her because I have, but only in USGA or FSGA Amateur events.  It is for moral support only, get a yardage, rake a bunker, clean a club, etc. 

Nice, my daughter likes to play as well and just got on her coed golf team (basically a boys team and she gets to play from the ladies tees). Hope she does even half as well as yours.

 

On 2/10/2016 at 10:41 AM, hcopenhagenh said:

I have a 9 year old son that is a very good junior golfer (has played in the World Championships).  We started off with US Kids which put on decent events.  I was excited to get caddie although I did hear of horror stories.  First tournament we played in we stood on the green on hole one.  Two parents were adjacent to us on hole 8 caddying for their kids.  We hear yelling, cursing, and then one of the parents chasing the other.  I held me head down to the ground in shame, shaking my head, thinking "What did I get us into?".  Fortunately, that was the only fight I have seen.

It gets tiresome seeing Daddy Caddies tee up the ball for their kid, line them up to hit the shot, line them up to putt.  My caddying duties go as far as pulling a club, making a suggestion, raking a bunker, cleaning a club, and being there for moral support.  Too many of these kids can't play when they have to do it on their own because Daddy does it all for them.  My kid still beats them and I don't really do anything but watch.

I can't wait until the day comes when he CAN'T have a caddie any more.  More than anything else, I hate being around the other parents caddying for their children.  Parents want their kids to be perfect so a 4 and a half hour round becomes 6 hour rounds.  You then have to hear them coach their child after a bad shot.  You have to hear the parents ask "Why did you just do that."  It becomes a huge nuisance for the other players in the round by have just one caddie do this stuff.

In my opinion, if a 15 year old needs a caddie for a junior tournament then they shouldn't be playing in junior tournaments.

My son's elementary school classmate played almost every single tournament starting at 5 years old, and I can see that a 5 year old might need a dad to tee up balls and stuff, but 9 year old kids are pretty much independent. They usually let them on with a push cart, no dad's.

Most 15 year old players carry their own clubs, they generally start to carry on their clubs after 12-13. Before that push carts. No caddy/daddy?

Also, you must live in a really rough area for fights between dad's to occur? I've seen that with hockey and soccer but never golf? The only time I've seen unpleasant behavior on the golf course was between two Drill Instructors yelling at each other from 100 yards away (or more).

[turtleback]

23 hours ago, Lihu said:

Nope, no butt hurt, nor an apology required. It was the assumption that we assumed the MIT student was cheating put me off a little bit.

The kid was definitely very smart, the rules do not exclude other students helping him. Just no adults or working engineers. I just found it hilarious that his solution was more than two decades advanced than ours due to his better education/intelligence and better equipped labs/etc.

Spoiler

OK, but I didn't "assume" it, you said so in so many words.  I quote: " An MIT student entered into the same group as mine (he was also 15 years old), and my partners and I were pretty sure he got help from upper class MIT students possibly some grad students?"  If that is not assuming he cheated I do not know what is.

Extraordinary mathematical talent in the very young is not unheard of.  CF. the history of Evariste Galois.  Despite dying at age 20 in a stupid politically motivated duel, he revolutionized the world of math and almost single-handedly established the branch of math we now call Abstract Algebra.

 

[Lihu]

8 minutes ago, turtleback said:

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OK, but I didn't "assume" it, you said so in so many words.  I quote: " An MIT student entered into the same group as mine (he was also 15 years old), and my partners and I were pretty sure he got help from upper class MIT students possibly some grad students?"  If that is not assuming he cheated I do not know what is.

Extraordinary mathematical talent in the very young is not unheard of.  CF. the history of Evariste Galois.  Despite dying at age 20 in a stupid politically motivated duel, he revolutionized the world of math and almost single-handedly established the branch of math we now call Abstract Algebra.

 

Any assumption was made upon your part, and you could have asked if that was against the rules before jumping to that assertion?

I certainly agree that there are MIT students who are super intelligent, but the normal MIT student who enters these competitions are not exactly like Galois. . .

BTW, one of my partners did go to MIT the following year. . .I don't think he asked anyone about this project though.

[iacas]

To both @Lihu and @turtleback, this is wildly off topic, and if you still have stuff to say to each other, take it to PMs or something.

[Hardspoon]

Here's a possibility that I didn't see raised in this thread: perhaps the rule exists in its current form because they don't want to discourage people from joining their college golf team as a non-scholarship player?

If the rule were "you are ineligible once you're on a college golf team", it might encourage someone to play in AJGA tournaments IN LIEU OF a non-scholarship position on their college's team...maybe that's what they are trying to avoid?

I'm not saying I agree with the rule; this is just a possible explanation that I didn't see brought up yet.

[Golfingdad]

10 minutes ago, Hardspoon said:

Here's a possibility that I didn't see raised in this thread: perhaps the rule exists in its current form because they don't want to discourage people from joining their college golf team as a non-scholarship player?

If the rule were "you are ineligible once you're on a college golf team", it might encourage someone to play in AJGA tournaments IN LIEU OF a non-scholarship position on their college's team...maybe that's what they are trying to avoid?

I'm not saying I agree with the rule; this is just a possible explanation that I didn't see brought up yet.

That's a possibility.  I'd be curious how many people there really are in that situation that could exploit that rule.  I would wonder if it would actually be less than the amount of good golfers who are smart enough to start college early.

[iacas]

@Pretzel, call this number: 908-326-1850.

It's the AJGA's tournament committee or rules committee or something like that.

I sat near to an AJGA guy at the Rules Workshop I attended last weekend, and he gave me that number for you to call.

[Pretzel]

Thank you @iacas, I will call and see what can be done. I appreciate it!

[iacas]

He seemed sympathetic to your unusual situation, and thought maybe it was just something not yet encountered. But he was really new and got most of his info from his boss.

[iacas]

On April 1, 2016 at 7:03 PM, Pretzel said:

Thank you @iacas, I will call and see what can be done. I appreciate it!

What ended up happening with this? I suspect very little, but perhaps you got some answers and/or set in motion some changes for the future?