AJGA Rules Suck

[Pretzel]

Today I found out two things:

1) I have been granted membership in the AJGA due to my tournament performance last year, with two top 3's in big tournaments and every other finish being a top 10 besides one.

2) You lose eligibility to compete in AJGA tournaments as soon as your start college

So now I am an AJGA member who can't actually play in their tournaments, for the next two years. I understand that the AJGA is meant for people who want to prepare for college golf and impress coaches, but excluding college students is kind of dumb. I want to prepare for college golf and impress the coach at my current school, but I can't play in AJGA tournaments (where most coaches actually look) because of their eligibility rules.

[vangator]

Must be a government program.

[dak4n6]

I don't understand, why do you want college recruiters to watch you when you have already gotten in?

One of the things I don't like about the JGA rules is that parents can't offer advice during tournaments and have to 'stay 30' away'. Why? Throughout college matches the coach can coach from the sidelines, and obviously the pros have their caddies, so what's up with this silly rule (that almost all parents just ignore anyway)?

[Pretzel]

23 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

I don't understand, why do you want college recruiters to watch you when you have already gotten in?

One of the things I don't like about the JGA rules is that parents can't offer advice during tournaments and have to 'stay 30' away'. Why? Throughout college matches the coach can coach from the sidelines, and obviously the pros have their caddies, so what's up with this silly rule (that almost all parents just ignore anyway)?

I am currently attending college at the University of Colorado Boulder, but I am not playing golf for the school team. I had an offer from another D2 school but not CU, and I ended up choosing my school based on academics since the other school I had talked with didn't actually have my intended major (despite what they had said previously, no such classes were offered when I went to sign up for classes at orientation)

The reason they don't want parents coaching is because most junior golf tournaments allow the players their own caddy, but the caddy often has to pass a rules certification test. They don't want any parents giving advice that could be contradictory to the rules since they may not know the rules as well as is needed to provide good advice. Parents are allowed to give advice to their players about things non-golf related such as the weather, food, and conversation in all the tournaments I've played in, but you have to pass a rules test to be officially designated as a caddy and able to give golf-related advice just to protect a player from receiving advice that could contradict the rules. 

At least where I play, the rule isn't "stay 30 away", but just that they can't really talk about anything to do with golf advice. You're allowed to still have conversations the same as a spectator and competitor normally would in any other tournament, but they need to be careful about discussing the player's round to avoid treading on the fine line between conversation and advice. You also will have college coaches out there, as well as the recruiters, at some tournaments and the coaches are allowed to discuss the rounds with players and give advice if they see fit (for example, I played with a player who had already signed with Denver University and the coach came out to watch him play and follow him around that day, and the coach ended up making the observation that he wasn't playing enough break on his putts). It's pretty much a blend of professional and college rules in that caddies are allowed, but so are coaches depending on the tournament.

[dak4n6]

In our local JGA tournaments, players don't have caddies. After playing for only 4 years, at the age of 15, my stepdaugter could use some input during play. Do they want to drive young players away from golf because of frustration? They're doing a good job.

[DaveP043]

12 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

In our local JGA tournaments, players don't have caddies. After playing for only 4 years, at the age of 15, my stepdaugter could use some input during play. Do they want to drive young players away from golf because of frustration? They're doing a good job.

I don't claim to know much about junior golf, but this seems odd to me.  Why would a young golfer become frustrated when they're required to make up their own minds about golf decisions?  It seems to me that evaluating the situations, making choices, sometimes wrong ones, and learning from them, is a big part of the learning process, both in golf and in life.  And don't most teenagers WANT to make their own choices, to be more independent from their parents?  Again, this is just my (relatively uninformed) opinion.

[dak4n6]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't claim to know much about junior golf, but this seems odd to me.  Why would a young golfer become frustrated when they're required to make up their own minds about golf decisions?  It seems to me that evaluating the situations, making choices, sometimes wrong ones, and learning from them, is a big part of the learning process, both in golf and in life.  And don't most teenagers WANT to make their own choices, to be more independent from their parents?  Again, this is just my (relatively uninformed) opinion.

After only 4 years of playing, my daughter is still learning the nuances of the swing, and the game (aren't we all?). Not hitting the right shots at the proper moments can lead to high scores and frustration. She usually plays much better when I can coach her.

[freshmanUTA]

3 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

I don't claim to know much about junior golf, but this seems odd to me.  Why would a young golfer become frustrated when they're required to make up their own minds about golf decisions?  It seems to me that evaluating the situations, making choices, sometimes wrong ones, and learning from them, is a big part of the learning process, both in golf and in life.  And don't most teenagers WANT to make their own choices, to be more independent from their parents?  Again, this is just my (relatively uninformed) opinion.

You've never got frustrated at yourself for taking the wrong club, hitting a low shot when you should have hit a high shot, etc? Couple that with being a teenager and going through one of the most stressful times of your life and you've got an issue.

[dak4n6]

6 hours ago, freshmanUTA said:

You've never got frustrated at yourself for taking the wrong club, hitting a low shot when you should have hit a high shot, etc? Couple that with being a teenager and going through one of the most stressful times of your life and you've got an issue.

Yeah, my daughter:

Mis-clubs all the time, even when she knows the distance (you have 125, why are you hitting a PW? I can barely hit a PW 120...her: I don't know.....)

Hits the wrong trajectory a lot (why did you open the face and try to flop it when you have 50 ft of green to work with? Or, why did you take a full swing when all you need to do is punch it under the tree back out onto the fairway? her: I don't know....)

Is just starting to understand ball flight laws and use her ball flight as feedback.

Has ADD, and has to be reminded all the time to go through her PSR, especially when putting.

She was blessed with a natural swing and for 3 yrs just pulled the club back and hit it long and straight (except for her putting, which has always been suspect). Now for the last year the game has caught up with her and her ball striking has declined as her mind has started to engage. However, she responds well to my on-course coaching, but I can't do that at JGA tournaments, and I can't figure out why they have that rule.

 

[Fourputt]

On 1/27/2016 at 7:20 PM, dak4n6 said:

I don't understand, why do you want college recruiters to watch you when you have already gotten in?

One of the things I don't like about the JGA rules is that parents can't offer advice during tournaments and have to 'stay 30' away'. Why? Throughout college matches the coach can coach from the sidelines, and obviously the pros have their caddies, so what's up with this silly rule (that almost all parents just ignore anyway)?

The coach is just one person coaching the entire team.  The rules limit who and how many people can give advice to a player during a round.  Most of that is up to the discretion of the tournament committee, and in my experience, allowing parents to interact is nothing but trouble.  You end up with 50 coaches all trying to tell their kids how to do this or that - it's mess. 

It's much easier to manage a tournament when the committee places strict restrictions on parental participation.  The junior competitions I refereed did not even allow caddies, so parents couldn't bypass the prohibition that way.  

Let the kids do their own thing, make their own mistakes during competition.  Then work with them between tournaments to help them to advance their ability and knowledge.

[DaveP043]

20 minutes ago, Fourputt said:

Let the kids do their own thing, make their own mistakes during competition.  Then work with them between tournaments to help them to advance their ability and knowledge.

This is my view as well.  The best way to better decision-making is through the painful learning process of trial and error.  I'm sure its tough for a parent to see a child making the errors and feeling the self-induced pain, but they'll be better in the long run.

[Fourputt]

Just now, DaveP043 said:

This is my view as well.  The best way to better decision-making is through the painful learning process of trial and error.  I'm sure its tough for a parent to see a child making the errors and feeling the self-induced pain, but they'll be better in the long run.

Besides, the competition is supposed to test the kids, not their parents.

[dave s]

Look back to your freshman or sophomore year in HS.  How fair would it have been for you being beaten up on by college kids from D1 or D2 schools?  The rules sound pretty fair to me.

dave

 

[Pretzel]

1 hour ago, dave s said:

Look back to your freshman or sophomore year in HS.  How fair would it have been for you being beaten up on by college kids from D1 or D2 schools?  The rules sound pretty fair to me.

dave

That happened to me, in that I competed against kids on my team that went to the Air Force Academy and School of Mines the next year to play golf on their respective teams. It was a very intimidating first round of tryouts when I stepped up to the first tee to watch my playing partner drive the ball 320 yards (I kid you not, that player swings so fast he managed to crack the face on his i20) as I appear to dink around hitting it 100 yards shorter than him.

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

Let the kids do their own thing, make their own mistakes during competition.  Then work with them between tournaments to help them to advance their ability and knowledge.

This is what I prefer. I know that I, myself, didn't like having a caddy other than having the ability to use a pushcart without judgement (since technically then it was the caddy using the pushcart, which is socially acceptable in junior tournaments for boys compared to the player himself using a pushcart) and having an easy conversational partner. When my grandpa would "caddy" for me we wouldn't ever talk about strategy, but we would talk about football and all other manner of things and I'd get to have a pushcart.

18 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Mis-clubs all the time, even when she knows the distance (you have 125, why are you hitting a PW? I can barely hit a PW 120...her: I don't know.....)

A somewhat easy way to help out with this is if you were to create a chart of her yardages with her one day. If she has a chart to refer to, it can help you remember which club to hit in which situation. I personally mark down 3 distances with each club, one with a 3/4 swing, one with a full swing, and one with a swing where I am giving it a little bit extra. I don't often use the swing with a little extra on the course, mostly only when I really need the ball to stop once it lands (since a swing with the extra oomph will have more spin and a steeper landing angle than if I clubbed up), but having my 3/4 swing and full swing distances for every club available to me in my back pocket is useful. The 3/4 swing yardage is also nearly identical to the yardage I will hit that club with a knockdown shot, so I have that information as well available to me. That way, once I have the yardage to the hole, I can just consult my yardages and figure out from there what kind of shot I want to hit and what kind of club it will require.

[dak4n6]

4 hours ago, Pretzel said:

A somewhat easy way to help out with this is if you were to create a chart of her yardages with her one day. If she has a chart to refer to, it can help you remember which club to hit in which situation. I personally mark down 3 distances with each club, one with a 3/4 swing, one with a full swing, and one with a swing where I am giving it a little bit extra. I don't often use the swing with a little extra on the course, mostly only when I really need the ball to stop once it lands (since a swing with the extra oomph will have more spin and a steeper landing angle than if I clubbed up), but having my 3/4 swing and full swing distances for every club available to me in my back pocket is useful. The 3/4 swing yardage is also nearly identical to the yardage I will hit that club with a knockdown shot, so I have that information as well available to me. That way, once I have the yardage to the hole, I can just consult my yardages and figure out from there what kind of shot I want to hit and what kind of club it will require.

I like that. Thanks Pretzel!

[dak4n6]

6 hours ago, Fourputt said:

Besides, the competition is supposed to test the kids, not their parents.

Yes that is obvious. But, with the whole 'grow the game' campaign in mind, they are walking the line of having lots of kids who shoot 100+ decide to just try something else. It's a question of how tough do you want to make it? I'm thinking maybe they should allow caddying/coaching up to age 16 -17. My daughter has only been playing 4 yrs, and I can generally save her a bunch of strokes just reminding her to do certain things. She has come off the course a couple times crying because she shot a 100+.

[SavvySwede]

2 hours ago, dak4n6 said:

Yes that is obvious. But, with the whole 'grow the game' campaign in mind, they are walking the line of having lots of kids who shoot 100+ decide to just try something else. It's a question of how tough do you want to make it? I'm thinking maybe they should allow caddying/coaching up to age 16 -17. My daughter has only been playing 4 yrs, and I can generally save her a bunch of strokes just reminding her to do certain things. She has come off the course a couple times crying because she shot a 100+.

Golf is supposed to be hard and it isn't for everybody. I see little point in sacrificing the character of the game for those who are unwilling to accept failure. 

[dak4n6]

4 minutes ago, SavvySwede said:

Golf is supposed to be hard and it isn't for everybody. I see little point in sacrificing the character of the game for those who are unwilling to accept failure. 

Sacrificing the character of the game by allowing caddying? How many times do you think Bones advised Phil 'yeah, you got a little quick on that one'? How about reading chips and putts? Almost like cheating.