Jump to content
IGNORED

Wedges, Bounce, and Ground Conditions


mdl
Note: This thread is 2960 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Recommended Posts

So I moved to Portland a year ago but didn't get to play at all last winter.  Plus last winter was historically dry here, and the courses I got to play last summer were all well drained and well dried out by the time I was playing.  I've now gotten to play 9 holes a few times this winter, which leads to a question about wedges.

I've been using the same 60˚ for years now, and I've always loved it.  Use it for almost all shots under ~80 yards, almost all shots around the green, when I'm playing regularly have it really dialed in (for my handicap), pretty rarely thin it and (literally) almost never hit it fat.  I don't know the bounce, but it's definitely (very?) low bounce.  This history was all in southern California where conditions tend to be firm.

This past weekend I played 9 holes at a wet, soft course.  With swings that felt great to me, with good lies in both tight grass and first cut light rough, I chunked most of my wedge shots around the green, and a couple partial swing shots from further out.  I was by myself and just playing a practice round, so I was playing multiple balls on many shots.  The only way I could not end up taking a big chunk of mud starting before the ball and hitting the ball 25% as far as I wanted was to play a steep chip shot, ball back a bit in the stance, hands forwards, try to hit ball before ground (i.e., try NOT to use the bounce, against what I've trained my short game swing towards).

So my question, is this just an outlier, as in the course was SUPER wet and soft and soggy, and in those conditions you just can't use bounce and have to try to hit ball first short game shots, regardless of club setup?  Or is this proof of the concept that wedge setup should be determined by predominant conditions, and I should invest in a high bounce 60˚ for all but the driest summer months?

  • Like 1

Matt

Mid-Weight Heavy Putter
Cleveland Tour Action 60˚
Cleveland CG15 54˚
Nike Vapor Pro Combo, 4i-GW
Titleist 585h 19˚
Tour Edge Exotics XCG 15˚ 3 Wood
Taylormade R7 Quad 9.5˚

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator

I am like you in that I play wedges with very little bounce.  Most courses I play here in WA, I can still use them because even though it is wet, the soil is still harder, as in little sand mixed in.  I did play one course recently that had such a sandy, wet and soft, soil that my bounce and leading edge just got stuck on every shot, and like you had a very tough time trying to adjust.  I am getting a second set of 52, 56, and 60 degree wedges with medium bounce so that I have more options when I play and can decide beforehand which to use.  This takes changing the short game swing out of play, but may require more practice to get used to.  So yes, ground conditions certainly play a part in wedge fitting as does your swing type.  If you use your 60 the majority of the time for short game, then it may not be a bad idea to try a medium bounce 60 to see what happens.  BUT try playing other courses first before deciding just in case it is an outlier course and that can influence your decision.

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
Team :srixon:!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Are you married to that 60*?

You could always keep that, and add a SW with high bounce to fit your new environment. Or ditch it, and take this new SW and open the face for tight shots/lies, etc.

Gambling is illegal at Bushwood sir, and I never slice.   

           

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
7 hours ago, mdl said:

So my question, is this just an outlier, as in the course was SUPER wet and soft and soggy, and in those conditions you just can't use bounce and have to try to hit ball first short game shots, regardless of club setup?  Or is this proof of the concept that wedge setup should be determined by predominant conditions, and I should invest in a high bounce 60˚ for all but the driest summer months?

Typically more bounce (or a "healthy" amount of bounce) helps in any condition.

 

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
Golf Terminology -  Analyzr  -  My FacebookTwitter and Instagram 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Thanks everyone.  I'm not married to this 60˚, but I'm pretty married to having a 60˚.  I have a higher bounce 54˚ that I use from the sand and ~100 yards, and that I've used in some periods for some closer and green side shots.  But I find I play most types of shots around the green better with a LW, so I'm definitely going to keep one in the bag, and I'd prefer to not be stuck with only my 54˚ around the green in wetter conditions.

Thanks @mvmac.  I've been  around here long enough to know you guys advocate for more bounce than most people think they want/need.  I guess my question was more, given that I've dialed in a swing with a low bounce 60˚ that gives me results I'm quite happy with in medium to firm conditions, is spending $100+ on a new LW going to at least partially solve my soggy conditions problem, or just be a bit better in all conditions and when it's super soggy I'll have to bias towards leading edge short game shots anyway?  Sort of an ROI question I guess...

Matt

Mid-Weight Heavy Putter
Cleveland Tour Action 60˚
Cleveland CG15 54˚
Nike Vapor Pro Combo, 4i-GW
Titleist 585h 19˚
Tour Edge Exotics XCG 15˚ 3 Wood
Taylormade R7 Quad 9.5˚

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Titlest Vokey wedge site has info about what wedge grind and bounce number is suitable based on conditions played.  I play mostly in NE Ohio on bent grass, dirt underneath and wet as much as dry conditions.

I took Vokey's advice.  Based on my normal course conditions, I went with the "M" grind on my 54 and 58 degree wedges.  I think both are 8* of bounce.  I can slide the 58* wedge under the ball from the fringe around the green when it's rain-soaked.

Low bounce and a flat grind in my neck of the woods means a lot of chunking (hitting behind) or digging, blading or a combination of all the above from shot to shot.  Gotta spec those wedges for the conditions you'll see most.

dave

The ultimate "old man" setup:

Ping G30 driver
Ping G Fairway woods - 5 and 7 woods
Callaway X-Hot #5 hybrid; Old school secret weapon
Ping G #6-9 irons; W and U wedges
Vokey 54 and 58* Wedges
Odyssey Versa Putter
Golf Balls

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

If you hit the ball properly with a full swing, you're hitting the ball first then taking your divot.  The bounce is there to help on not so great shots.  It gives you more of a margin of error of not digging in.  For chips and generally most shots around the green, I use the leading edge and pick the ball off the turf.  The turf where I live can be very grainy and if the grain is growing into the swing, you better pick it or it's going to be ugly.  When you pitch the ball, use the bounce.  Firm tight lies can be tricky.  Soft, muddy conditions can be as well.  It just takes more concentration on your part.

Driver.......Ping K15 9.5* stiff 3 wood.....Ping K15 16* stiff 5 wood.....Ping K15 19* stiff 4 Hybrid...Cleveland Gliderail 23* stiff 5 - PW......Pinhawk SL GW...........Tommy Armour 52* SW...........Tommy Armour 56* LW...........Tommy Armour 60* FW...........Diamond Tour 68* Putter.......Golfsmith Dyna Mite Ball..........Volvik Vista iV Green Bag..........Bennington Quiet Organizer Shoes.... ..Crocs

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Note: This thread is 2960 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Posts

    • I did not realize that, I was thinking a more traditional golf club.  
    • Thanks for the feedback. @StuM, we are a "club without real estate" so no facilities or pro. We have a membership of around 185 players and we only play together as a group at our tournaments, which are held at public access courses. A group of us setup the tournaments, collect the money and dole out the prizes.
    • In general, granting free relief anywhere on the course isn't recommended.  Similarly, when marking GUR, the VSGA and MAPGA generally don't mark areas that are well away from the intended playing lines, no matter how poor the conditions.  If you hit it far enough offline, you don't necessarily deserve free relief.  And you don't have to damage clubs, take unplayable relief, take the stroke, and drop the ball in a better spot.
    • If it's not broken don't fix it. If you want to add grooves to it just because of looks that's your choice of course. Grooves are cut into putter faces to reduce skid, the roll faced putter is designed to do the same thing. I'm no expert but it seems counter productive to add grooves to the roll face. Maybe you can have it sand-blasted or something to clean up the face. Take a look at Tigers putter, its beat to hell but he still uses it.     
    • I get trying to limit relief to the fairway, but how many roots do you typically find in the fairway? Our local rule allows for relief from roots & rocks anywhere on the course (that is in play). My home course has quite a few 100 year old oaks that separate the fairways. Lift and move the ball no closer to the hole. None of us want to damage clubs.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...