How much does temperature affect distance?

[Lugowskins]

First off I apologize if this thread has already been made. I started playing fairly early this year and played on a lot of 30-35 degree days and I thought I had my club distances fairly well mapped out after getting new clubs over the winter. Well in the past week its finally jumped up into the 50s and its seemed in my few times out that its added 10-15 yards to each club which is nice but feel like I have to go back to square one and put the work back into figuring it out again. Just curious if someone out there has looked into this from a scientific perspective. I'm sure certain balls handle the cold better probably a softer ball but I'm not sure if they just don't fly as well through the cold air if that's the larger issue.

[DaveP043]

I'm sure the physical characteristics of the balls DO change with temperature, and I'm sure others will find and provide some data on that.  I also believe that the player also contributes quite a bit to this distance variation.  In really cold weather, you wear more clothes which can restrict your swing, its harder to get fully warmed up, and if you haven't played much, you're probably trying NOT to swing all out.  I definitely expect to gain a club to a club and a half with my irons between my first rounds in late February and my rounds in June.  I also expect to lose a half-club or more if we get an unusually cold day once the season has started, on days like we had here last weekend..  The variation is greater in the longer clubs than in my wedges.

[Lugowskins]

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

I'm sure the physical characteristics of the balls DO change with temperature, and I'm sure others will find and provide some data on that.  I also believe that the player also contributes quite a bit to this distance variation.  In really cold weather, you wear more clothes which can restrict your swing, its harder to get fully warmed up, and if you haven't played much, you're probably trying NOT to swing all out.  I definitely expect to gain a club to a club and a half with my irons between my first rounds in late February and my rounds in June.  I also expect to lose a half-club or more if we get an unusually cold day once the season has started, on days like we had here last weekend..  The variation is greater in the longer clubs than in my wedges.

I hadn't even put myself into the equation that's a good point. I'm still wearing the same clothes I was on the colder days but I can understand the muscles not being as loose when its colder out.

[Lihu]

Basically, you're going from cold to summer temperatures. Also, if you just started, it's likely you will change other things as well that could affect distance and this will only be a minor effect compared to those.

To be honest, 15 yards is not really that much variance to be worried about until you get into the low 80s. Just club down 1 club to correct, and you'll probably be fine. When it gets in the 80s club down again.

[nevets88]

 

[Lugowskins]

11 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

 

Well I'd say you pretty much nailed it with that ha thanks!

[natureboy]

One thing possibly worth adding is that a cool, 'heavy' day will tend to increase the effect of the wind as (all else equal) lower temperature / high pressure tends to compress the vertical wind gradient and higher temps tend to expand it.

[Mop Bucket]

I always just assumed it was because my muscles were looser on warmer days. Cool info, this will definitely help where I play since the weather can be up to 30 degrees different depending on the day.

[arturo28mx]

The density of air changes A LOT with temperature. I'm sure you can find charts and tables on this.

For me theres a one club difference between playing very early morning and playing at 2:00 pm.

[Dan42nepa]

I think i read somewhere its 5 yards for every 10 degrees.. I think it was the Hank Haney show on Sirius last week,

[onthehunt526]

6 hours ago, Lugowskins said:

First off I apologize if this thread has already been made. I started playing fairly early this year and played on a lot of 30-35 degree days and I thought I had my club distances fairly well mapped out after getting new clubs over the winter. Well in the past week its finally jumped up into the 50s and its seemed in my few times out that its added 10-15 yards to each club which is nice but feel like I have to go back to square one and put the work back into figuring it out again. Just curious if someone out there has looked into this from a scientific perspective. I'm sure certain balls handle the cold better probably a softer ball but I'm not sure if they just don't fly as well through the cold air if that's the larger issue.

I've heard typically it is 1 yd per 10°... Ideal average mapping conditions are basically 70° F...

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

I've heard typically it is 1 yd per 10°... Ideal average mapping conditions are basically 70° F...

The Trackman video chart shows about 1.4 yards per 10*. But they qualify that as just the aerodynamic effect on the golf ball from drag and lift. They explicitly do not account temperature effects on ball compression.

My personal experience is the effect is a bit larger than ~ 1 yard / 10*. I don't think it's down to stiffer muscles alone.

I seem to recall that for golf ball flight the distance gain from Magnus force lift due to spin is more important than the increased drag resulting from the spin. So that means if you get noticeably less spin from a colder ball (or more from a warmer, more easily compressed one) then that will impact distance a bit more than even the air density effects.

It's probably safe to figure ~ 2.5 yards per 10*, or ~ one club per 30*.

Edited April 15, 2016 by natureboy

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Dan42nepa said:

I think i read somewhere its 5 yards for every 10 degrees.. I think it was the Hank Haney show on Sirius last week,

 

1 hour ago, onthehunt526 said:

I've heard typically it is 1 yd per 10°... Ideal average mapping conditions are basically 70° F...

 

8 minutes ago, natureboy said:

The Trackman video chart shows about 1.4 yards per 10*. But they qualify that as just the aerodynamic effect on the golf ball from drag and lift. They explicitly do not account temperature effects on ball compression.

My personal experience is the effect is a bit larger than ~ 1 yard / 10*. I don't think it's down to stiffer muscles alone.

I seem to recall that for golf ball flight the distance gain from Magnus force lift due to spin is more important than the increased drag resulting from the spin. So that means if you get less significantly spin from a colder ball (or more from a warmer, more easily compressed one) then that will impact distance a bit more than even the air density effects.

It's probably safe to figure ~ 2.5 yards per 10*, or ~ one club per 30*.

 

I suppose the PGA took a lot of data to publish this?

It's about 18 yards from 35F to 55F, which is in line with what the OP observed. . .

 

[nevets88]

13 minutes ago, natureboy said:

The Trackman video chart shows about 1.4 yards per 10*. But they qualify that as just the aerodynamic effect on the golf ball from drag and lift. They explicitly do not account temperature effects on ball compression.

My personal experience is the effect is a bit larger than ~ 1 yard / 10*. I don't think it's down to stiffer muscles alone.

I seem to recall that for golf ball flight the distance gain from Magnus force lift due to spin is more important than the increased drag resulting from the spin. So that means if you get noticeably less spin from a colder ball (or more from a warmer, more easily compressed one) then that will impact distance a bit more than even the air density effects.

It's probably safe to figure ~ 2.5 yards per 10*, or ~ one club per 30*.

Yes, the video is more aerodynamics than holistic and I think it understates distance lost IRL but I'm guessing if they didn't take into affect cold has on the ball, it's a difficult thing to quantify. It depends on the ball, how long it has been out in the cold, etc...

It would be interesting if two parties simulcasted a test, one in 85 degree weather and one in 45. Get two similar distance golfers, both do the same exact thing to prepare, hit different clubs and use radar to gauge differences. It's still relatively anecdotal, but more descriptive than the old cliches of X yards lost for every Y degrees.

 

[natureboy]

12 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I suppose the PGA took a lot of data to publish this?

It's about 18 yards from 35F to 55F, which is in line with what the OP observed. . .

Is that PGA teaching manual chart just ball compression or also air density? In 'normal' playing temperature ranges it gives a value of about 2.7 yards per 10 degrees. I wonder if that includes the 1 yard per 10* aerodynamics effect that the Trackman video addresses or if that would be added to it for an ~ 3.7 yards per 10 degrees?

[Lihu]

Just now, natureboy said:

Is that PGA teaching manual chart just ball compression or also air density? In 'normal' playing temperature ranges it gives a value of about 2.7 yards per 10 degrees. I wonder if that includes the 1 yard per 10* aerodynamics effect that the Trackman video addresses or if that would be added to it for an ~ 3.7 yards per 10 degrees?

I think it's just raw distance and temperature data which would probably consider all those effects in one lumped up value? I doubt they did anything more than that when they took the data?

[natureboy]

41 minutes ago, Lihu said:

I think it's just raw distance and temperature data which would probably consider all those effects in one lumped up value? I doubt they did anything more than that when they took the data?

I wonder if they let the balls fully come to the ambient air temp they were testing at. Given the USGA has a pretty solid testing division, I would think so.

There was a test of cold ball vs. hot ball in equal air temperature and that came out to about 1.6 yards per 10 degrees difference just due to differing energy transfer and spin effects due to compression. That was with a pretty high SS - carry distance of 265 w/ cold ball and 275 with warm ball. The ball was a premium ball which likely performs better than others (range balls e.g.) in the same range of temperatures.

So if you add that to the Trackman aerodynamic factor of 1 yard per 10 degrees it agrees pretty well with the USGA numbers as 'inclusive'.

Edited April 15, 2016 by natureboy

[onthehunt526]

24 yards from 35°F to 75°F, that's over 10%... So Im guessing less than 35° the ball basically goes nowhere.