Chipping/pitching with bounce

[tdiii]

I've seen stuff in a few more places lately suggesting that people get away from the standard teaching method of chipping where one places the ball back in the stance and hits down on it, instead playing it middle to front of stance, less shaft lean, even striking the ground a bit before the ball with the bounce on the club.  The latter method is supposed to prevent the leading edge from digging in and give more room for error. 

Are folks employing this method and how are they liking the results if so?  I started practicing this last night.  Results are mixed, but no chunks where the ball goes 1' and you want to bury your head in the sand in humiliation.  The miss, though, is still pretty ugly -- leading edge to equator rarely imparts spin or elevation. Particularly off really tight lies, I don't see how you can really avoid equatoring.

How is this working for you?  Tips? 

Edited April 22, 2016 by tdiii

[Golfingdad]

Just a bit of language clarification ... You're striking the ground BEHIND the ball with the bounce.

I pitch like this and have had fantastic results.  There are a few threads on here explaining it - search "quickie pitching technique" or something to that effect.

[tdiii]

Just now, Golfingdad said:

Just a bit of language clarification ... You're striking the ground BEHIND the ball with the bounce.

I pitch like this and have had fantastic results.  There are a few threads on here explaining it - search "quickie pitching technique" or something to that effect.

Yes, striking the ground BEHIND the ball. 

[Golfingdad]

 

[Avalanche]

8 minutes ago, tdiii said:

I've seen stuff in a few more places lately suggesting that people get away from the standard teaching method of chipping where one places the ball back in the stance and hits down on it, instead playing it middle to front of stance, less shaft lean, even striking the ground a bit in front of the ball with the bounce on the club.  The latter method is supposed to prevent the leading edge from digging in and give more room for error. 

Are folks employing this method and how are they liking the results if so?  I started practicing this last night.  Results are mixed, but no chunks where the ball goes 1' and you want to bury your head in the sand in humiliation.  The miss, though, is still pretty ugly -- leading edge to equator rarely imparts spin or elevation. Particularly off really tight lies, I don't see how you can really avoid equatoring.

How is this working for you?  Tips? 

Coincidental that you'd post this right now.  I just got back from the practice range a few minutes ago, working with my 52 and 56 wedges.  The club pro happened by and asked how things were going.  I said "Fine, except I've been hitting the occasional hozel rocket."   (Maybe 1 out of 20 or 30 shots.)  He had me try the exact thing you mention in your first sentence above.  He said that would cut down on the hozel rockets.  I hit a few, but will need to hit a bunch more to get a feel for that technique.  

[Dinoma]

The link up above will help you more than you can believe. Alongside the 'accompanying' book  "Your Short Game Solution" by James Sieckmann it's transformed my short game, from a nervy stab at the ball using the traditional method to using my equipment and swing properly to get much better results.

For me a large part of conquering this game is empowering you to realise why things have gone wrong in real time on the course. For me with the short game it when I stray too far from these teachings. 

[pumaAttack]

5 minutes ago, Dinoma said:

The link up above will help you more than you can believe. Alongside the 'accompanying' book  "Your Short Game Solution" by James Sieckmann it's transformed my short game, from a nervy stab at the ball using the traditional method to using my equipment and swing properly to get much better results.

A truly amazing book that has really helped my short game.  This book really helps with the seemingly difficult wedge shots.  SHots like carrying a bunker, hitting from a tight lie, etc. Now instead of hoping I can get the ball on the green, I am confident I can get it close to the pin.

Edited April 22, 2016 by pumaAttack

[tdiii]

Messing about with it.  Still equatoring and I don't hit it all that high. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by tdiii

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, tdiii said:

Messing about with it.  Still equatoring and I don't hit it all that high. 

Check the thread links above. There's likely something on how to deal with tight lies. I find this shot challenging on tight lies that are partly bare and unusually hard. I suspect that when you have the technique down pretty soundly that the your AoA on even a poorer strike becomes shallow enough so that any deflection of the bounce from contact with the ground is minimal. The shallow AoA of attack makes the any bounce contact more oblique so you get more 'glide' and less 'bounce'.

I suspect that you may be coming down on the ball too steeply so that when you do contact the ground you get a significant deflection of the bounce bringing the equator up into the back of the ball. Not sure if it's correct per the advised technique, but you might try to swing the clubhead around your body more to flatten out the swing arc and shallow the AoA.

Edited April 22, 2016 by natureboy

[RH31]

22 hours ago, tdiii said:

I've seen stuff in a few more places lately suggesting that people get away from the standard teaching method of chipping where one places the ball back in the stance and hits down on it, instead playing it middle to front of stance, less shaft lean, even striking the ground a bit before the ball with the bounce on the club.  The latter method is supposed to prevent the leading edge from digging in and give more room for error. 

Are folks employing this method and how are they liking the results if so?  I started practicing this last night.  Results are mixed, but no chunks where the ball goes 1' and you want to bury your head in the sand in humiliation.  The miss, though, is still pretty ugly -- leading edge to equator rarely imparts spin or elevation. Particularly off really tight lies, I don't see how you can really avoid equatoring.

How is this working for you?  Tips? 

I've been working on this for quite some time. When I get the setup correct, pick my spot and commit, I hit good shots. My misses now tend to be short, but not stub it and hit it fat. What I'm finding is that it takes a ton of practice to switch from a weight forward, shaft leaning, hit down on the back of the ball approach. Now I try to get the shaft with no lean forward and with the lie angle very upright. The heel cannot dig in with is setup. Again it takes a ton of practice for this setup and feel to be natural and I'm not there yet.

FWIW, I saw this approach on Paul Azinger's golf channel academy short game show. Dick Stocton's approach is similar as well.

Whatever method you choose, commit to it and practice, practice practice. It's probably going to take awhile to get the feel for it. Good luck!

 

[tdiii]

Worked at it last night again, this time taking about 30 chips off the practice green. One small nick in the green, but definitely getting the feel for it.  Also threw the ball in the rough searching out crummy lies.  Was surprised to see the method work there, too.  It will be interesting to see how it goes on the course!

[Ernest Jones]

On April 22, 2016 at 5:20 PM, tdiii said:

Messing about with it.  Still equatoring and I don't hit it all that high. 

You need to let the club release a bit early, think of it as a controlled flip. The club head should pass the hands coming through impact. If you don't get that flippy impact you won't get the height. 

[dchoye]

Can activate the bounce more by lower the hands and handle . This is great for splashing out of the sand. I tend to use more of the heel bounce "intentional fat heavy " lob out of sand

[natureboy]

Has anyone who's thrown a frisbee 'forehand' found similar feels in the release for this shot?

[natureboy]

13 hours ago, tdiii said:

Worked at it last night again, this time taking about 30 chips off the practice green. One small nick in the green, but definitely getting the feel for it.  Also threw the ball in the rough searching out crummy lies.  Was surprised to see the method work there, too.  It will be interesting to see how it goes on the course!

I was too. I practiced a few low powered ones off my carpet and found some things I think I was doing. Basically too many full swing elements creeping in (it's early in the season).

Adjustments that seemed to help my results:

• slightly more axis tilt feel toward the target (more level shoulders than full swing set up and impact)
• shoulders more open to stance than normal for me (may not be officially advised but it improved my impact vs shoulders parallel to target line)
• softer hands and arms (more 'floppy' and less 'engaged' through impact than in full swing)
• takeaway with trail hand knuckles facing ground (a little like a forehand frisbee wrist cock) and releasing similarly 'under'
• elbows slide back/behind along the side of the body on backswing and follow through
• the biggest feel improvement was 'pulling the lead shoulder back / behind and level rather than raising the lead shoulder with an extending 'firm' lead side like in a full shot...at times it almost felt like the lead shoulder going 'straight' back behind me was pulling the relatively passive trail hand through the ball

[iacas]

12 hours ago, natureboy said:

Has anyone who's thrown a frisbee 'forehand' found similar feels in the release for this shot?

No. Generally speaking that would be way, way too much wrist involvement. Think back to the Tom Kite video…

[natureboy]

2 hours ago, iacas said:

No. Generally speaking that would be way, way too much wrist involvement. Think back to the Tom Kite video…

I was thinking more of the hand position - knuckles down, palm up and maybe a bit of similarity to a relatively soft forehand frisbee toss with the wrist reacting to the shoulder turn rather than a full out distance throw with a lot of active wrist snap.

I don't find a lot of active wrist involvement through release with the Pelz distance wedge technique either relative to the full swing. I feel the lead side extension (rather than primarily rotation) releasing the club.

Edited April 24, 2016 by natureboy

[Abu3baid]

1 hour ago, natureboy said:

I was thinking more of the hand position - knuckles down, palm up and maybe a bit of similarity to a relatively soft forehand frisbee toss with the wrist reacting to the shoulder turn rather than a full out distance throw with a lot of active wrist snap.

I don't find a lot of active wrist involvement through release with the Pelz distance wedge technique either relative to the full swing. I feel the lead side extension (rather than primarily rotation) releasing the club.

I'm confused.