Looking at specs, why am I struggling to hit one of the other

[PhxHacker]

    Taylormade Rocketbladez        Cleveland  TA5    

              Loft      Lie                          Loft     Lie
5 iron      24       62.0                          27    60.5
6 iron      27.5    62.5                          30    61.0
7 iron      31.5    63.0                         33.5    61.5
8 iron      35.5    63.5                         37    62.0
9 iron      40       64.0                         41    62.5
PW          46      64.5                         45    63.0

 

can someone tell me looking at the above specs, why I'm having difficulty hitting the TM RBZ over the Cleveland's. The TM's are 1/2 inch longer, both have steel regular flex shafts. The Cleveland's have a swing wight of D2 & The TM's swing weight is D 3.5

[SavvySwede]

All the specs are different so not much to go on there. I would guess you are probably just more familiar with the Cleveland's.

[saevel25]

No way to tell. Golfers react different with equipment differences. Typically if you are fitted for clubs you can see the numbers change for the better. I would say the Cleveland irons probably are a better fit for your swing in terms of lie angle, club length, swing weight, and how they look down at the ball. All those things can effect how you swing or set up to the ball. 

I would always get fitted for irons if you are looking to buy new irons. 

[acerimusdux]

Well longer and heavier (likely in actual weight as well as swing weight) should mean harder to hit. Maybe not much more than that?

[Patch]

The Cleveland clubs just fit your swing better is my guess. Probably the difference in length is the biggest factor. Grip down on the TMs and see if that makes any difference.

[PhxHacker]

Thanks for the insight everyone. If I couls get used to one set, hopefully I can get used to another given time

[natureboy]

In addition to the length, the TM are more upright. Depending on your setup or swing plane that could be affecting your impact. ~1.5* isn't much, but depending on your height and arm length one of the sets may be a bit more toe-down or toe-up vs. the other. 

Edited April 25, 2016 by natureboy

[PhxHacker]

34 minutes ago, natureboy said:

In addition to the length, the TM are more upright. Depending on your setup or swing plane that could be affecting your impact. ~1.5* isn't much, but depending on your height and arm length one of the sets may be a bit more toe-down or toe-up vs. the other. 

I was wondering how much of a difference 1.5* is. My local shop suggested that the might be more willing to bend the lie down rather than up. 

[natureboy]

10 hours ago, PhxHacker said:

I was wondering how much of a difference 1.5* is. My local shop suggested that the might be more willing to bend the lie down rather than up. 

It's enough that many would have their irons adjusted. Maybe more so if the club is longer than ideal for your setup.

Have you tried gripping down on the TM to see if you hit it better? Try doing the lie angle sharpie test to see if the ball is impacting the face any differently between the two sets.

Edited April 26, 2016 by natureboy

[PhxHacker]

2 hours ago, natureboy said:

It's enough that many would have their irons adjusted. Maybe more so if the club is longer than ideal for your setup.

Have you tried gripping down on the TM to see if you hit it better? Try doing the lie angle sharpie test to see if the ball is impacting the face any differently between the two sets.

I'm gonna be at the range in the morning, and give them another go. I will try choking up on the 5 & 6 irons mainly, that is where the length begins to pose a problem with 6 iron being as long as my old 5 iron and the TM 5 iron being as long as the Cleveland 4 iron. I never even carried the Cleveland 4 iron in my bag. 

After tomorrow's session, I will take them to the local Van's pro shop around the corner and see if I can hit off of their lie board. 

So, to see if I comprehend the situation, the length coupled with the difference in lie angle might suggest that I need to have them bent down "flatter" to be more reminiscent of the Cleveland's? Is that expensive? And is it necessary to adjust the whole set or just the longer irons?

[natureboy]

1 hour ago, PhxHacker said:

I'm gonna be at the range in the morning, and give them another go. I will try choking up on the 5 & 6 irons mainly, that is where the length begins to pose a problem with 6 iron being as long as my old 5 iron and the TM 5 iron being as long as the Cleveland 4 iron. I never even carried the Cleveland 4 iron in my bag. 

After tomorrow's session, I will take them to the local Van's pro shop around the corner and see if I can hit off of their lie board. 

So, to see if I comprehend the situation, the length coupled with the difference in lie angle might suggest that I need to have them bent down "flatter" to be more reminiscent of the Cleveland's? Is that expensive? And is it necessary to adjust the whole set or just the longer irons?

Many say the sharpie test is actually more accurate than the lie board test: http://www.golfinred.com/fit-lie-angle-without-lie-board/

Generally if the lie angle needs to be changed, you adjust the set the same amount through the set. I'd see what your clubfitter has to say.

AFAIA, if the club is too upright for you the way you swing / your hand height, the extra length compounds the issue putting the toe further in the air and possibly exposing the leading edge of the heel to the ground more often. The 1.5* upright might be less of an issue if the clubs were the same length as the other ones (if this is the issue), but ask the clubfitter.

[Valleygolfer]

It's probably that 8 inch ball of mush between your ears. Technically you should be able to hit any reasonable golf club. My experience is that there is subtle changes in the swing with new clubs for amateurs because of new expectations. Usually swinging in a manner that throws off mechanics....but maybe that's just me...

[PhxHacker]

5 hours ago, Valleygolfer said:

It's probably that 8 inch ball of mush between your ears. Technically you should be able to hit any reasonable golf club. My experience is that there is subtle changes in the swing with new clubs for amateurs because of new expectations. Usually swinging in a manner that throws off mechanics....but maybe that's just me...

I haven't ruled that out either at this point. If this were to be the issue, it would be the best case scenario 

[Lihu]

On 4/25/2016 at 7:44 AM, PhxHacker said:

Thanks for the insight everyone. If I couls get used to one set, hopefully I can get used to another given time

I would get them statically fitted and have them do a lie board test to see if they are too upright or flat. BTW, you haven't really stated how much of a struggle you are having? What is the magnitude of the "struggle"?

As your swing improves, clubs make less of a difference.

[PhxHacker]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

I would get them statically fitted and have them do a lie board test to see if they are too upright or flat. BTW, you haven't really stated how much of a struggle you are having? What is the magnitude of the "struggle"?

As your swing improves, clubs make less of a difference.

Well, I hit my Cleveland's very crisp. Good contact, the occasional fat shot and a very rare thin shot. Mostly the issue I had with them was a push, usually about 5 yds right, unless of course I lined up left, then I would hit a straight shot or a a slight pull. It was common with these Irons that when I hit the green, they would release and roll too far.

 That is how I ended up buying the rocketbladez, I bought into the higher ball flight less roll sales pitch and the mostly positive reviews I was reading about them. While it's true, the ball flight is higher and a softer landing when hit on the sweet spot.

So the issues I am having is toe hits galore, seems every shot is out on the toe. But the 5 &6 Irons I am hitting so fat and off the toe that a 6 goes the same distance as a 9 iron. I hit a couple of 6 Irons so fat that I really dug at least an inch and a half into the turf. On one of those really fat shots, I practically missed the ball all together barely clipping it with the toe and it landed two bays away from me about 7 feet in distance to the right

[PhxHacker]

I'm willing to lay a claim that if the grounds superintendent of this golf course ever figures out who is ripping up their turf  to this degree, I'm gonna get banned from pulling into the parking lot

[Lihu]

34 minutes ago, PhxHacker said:

I'm willing to lay a claim that if the grounds superintendent of this golf course ever figures out who is ripping up their turf  to this degree, I'm gonna get banned from pulling into the parking lot

I don't have any advice for your problem, and am waiting for one of the better golfers to respond to that.

However, I used to hit in a similar way, and even played with the course managers on a few occasions when I was making exceptionally deep divots. Luckily, it was my habit to pick up the beaver pelts and put them back into the ditches I left on the fairways. This action seemed to somewhat appease the hurt looks on their faces. 

@mvmac helped me fix that issue, I just don't remember the solution exactly?

[PhxHacker]

Just an update on today's practice session. It started out pretty even flow for what has been happening since the iron switch, PW, 9i striking getting more fluent. As I progressed up to an 8i and into the 7i, I make eye contact with an older gentleman down the row who says " I see your trouble with the same issue I've had before". No kidding I reply, "which one"? I inform him briefly that I have just made an equipment change.

he walks over to me and says "set up to your ball with your normal set up, do you see it"? I reply not yet exactly but feel free to enlighten me. He points out my leftarm angle in relation to the ball and explains that my hands are too far forward. Now had he not been there at that precise moment, I most likely would never have figured this out on my own. He moved my hands back ever so slightly and then all of a sudden I saw it plain as day, I was lining up with a closed club face at address. Now honestly, I could not see this from my perspective prior to this very moment. So then, I look down and I'm dumbfounded that I could not recognize something so elementary. I had myself convinced of things like the offset on the new clubs were why they looked like this to me at address, never ascertaining that it was a set up issue in the least.

so then I start swinging the club and like a circumstance I couldn't describe in text, my fat shots disappeared, hallelujah I'm thinking, this is the dogs biscuit. So I'm hitting for a short while and realize, hell, now I'm not getting under the ball at all. It's like I'm hitting off a tile all of a sudden. Well he leaves and I say goodbye and a few minutes later I run outta balls, so I head back into the proshop and get another bucket and head back to my bay.

at this time there's a new guy in the bay directly next to me to my right. He says - no joke " let's see what the young fella has in his game". Talking about me of course, and unbeknownst to him he has no idea about the conversation I had with the man prior. I'm swinging, he's swinging and every minute or so he walks around behind me and then addresse his ball hits, walks, hits, walks etc.... Then speaks. "Hey young man, take a practice and hold it". What the hell I think o.k. And I do it, he says now hit a ball o.k. I hit a ball. He says notice in your practice swing you come all the way through with a good finish and in your ball striking you cut it short. "Take a practice swing and fire through the ball like you are hitting a ball. O.k. I do it - now address the ball and hit it exactly like that last practice swing, duh I'm thinking, but he was right I wasn't finishing my swing at all.

i managed to get lucky today and meet two guys who were nice enough to take 5 minutes out of their time at different times and critique me without me knowing it and give me some fundamental guidance that I had lost or didn't realize was happening in one range session. There's still some rust to wipe away, but now I have confidence in knowing that it isn't the clubs and that is worth it's weight in gold and blood pressure.