My Golf Setup Worries

[Rainmaker]

31 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

Years go by while you're chasing your tail, trying to fix things that don't need fixing, all the while failing to take a closer look at possible setup flaws, and maybe finally uncovering that ONE really big flaw that, once corrected, will change everything

There actually IS a thing like that, in my opinion, One really big flaw that, once corrected, will change everything (for many, not all).  But that thing is not directly to do with the set-up, it's impact and where to swing the club to, where to put your low-point, not casting, not coming over the top, etc.  That's all fixed by changing ONE misconception.  For many, not all.  In my opinion, anyway.  There are some set-up flaws that would prevent it, but you can do it under a variety of set-up conditions. 

[saevel25]

4 minutes ago, Abu3baid said:

Fine, so I should have said there is one person working on it.. My point is that in terms of priorities it doesn't stay on the priority list for long and it's relative importance compared to other parts of the swing is very low.  He is making it sound like this is what's holding us hackers back.

I was just messing with ya. Chill

I agree, in terms of priority, it's on the low end due to how easy it is to fix.

[iacas]

On May 10, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Joe Mama said:

Almost every aspect of the setup are far more important than we think they are, I think.  If just ONE thing is wrong--for example, your left thimb is a half-inch too long, as Hogan's used to be when he was hooking everything-- then your game could be seriously compromised.

I too disagree that these little things have a big impact.

I could grip the club with a gap between my hands and still hit pretty good golf shots, even though that's a grip I'd never actually use (and never have before).

Setup is important, but it's not that important, and it's easy to get right. It requires no skill or talent. Just knowledge of how to do it.

[Joe Mama]

I continously experiment with most of the items on the llist, hoping to randomly discover a "magic move."

One recent change has helped me very much:  at setup, my thumb, index, and little finger now are off the shaft.  My takeaway is done by pulling back with the middle two fingers.  Having the index finger and thumb compllely off the shaft prevents their being inadvertently used to twist the shaft, thereby changing the face angle.

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Joe Mama

[saevel25]

19 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

I continously experiment with most of the items on the llist, hoping to randomly discover a "magic move."

No such thing. It's a myth. 

Golf is hard.

It takes proper practice on stuff that will have meaningful results on your swing that will influence your game. It's not some magical move.

Then it's just playing lots of golf and knowing how to get around the course. 

[Joe Mama]

It's true that there is no such thing as magic.  No sane golfer believes in it, of course.  Nevertheless, some golfers have an unrecognized swing flaw which seriously impacts their game, and once it is discovered and replaced by the "correct" move, the effect on one's game can be so dramatic, so remarkable, as to seem almost "magical"--almost supernatural.  For Hogan, it was the shortened thumb move, though he never called it "magic."

 

This week, the magic move I discovered was the two-finger takeaway.

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

It's true that there is no such thing as magic.  No sane golfer believes in it, of course.  Nevertheless, some golfers have an unrecognized swing flaw which seriously impacts their game, and once it is discovered and replaced by the "correct" move, the effect on one's game can be so dramatic, so remarkable, as to seem almost "magical"--almost supernatural.  For Hogan, it was the shortened thumb move, though he never called it "magic."

Hogan could have had any thumb length and still been a very, very, very, very good player.

It's completely false that this one tiny thing had anything more than a small influence on his play. His swing would have looked and performed almost identically.

[Joe Mama]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

Hogan could have had any thumb length and still been a very, very, very, very good player.

It's completely false that this one tiny thing had anything more than a small influence on his play. His swing would have looked and performed almost identically.

Sure, Hogan already WAS a very good player, but there is a vast gulf between a very good player, and a world champion.  Without that half-inch change in his thumb length, he MIGHT have struggled with his hook for the rest of his career, being only a great player instead of the best in the world.

Or,  maybe not, but how can one of us from this vantage point confidently declare it absolutely could not have been so

Small things in the setup and grip most certainly can be extremely important.  For example, if your swing now works well with the left thumb on top, but now you rotate it clockwise from the top by just a half inch, the effects on your swing can be huge.  Do that one little thing, and change nothing else, and you will likely hit a giant hook.

Very small deviations from "correct" at setup can sometimes make a world of difference, can't they?

 

 

 

 

Edited May 16, 2016 by Joe Mama

[iacas]

Just now, Joe Mama said:

Sure, Hogan already WAS a very good player, but there is a vast gulf between a very good player, and a world champion.   Without that half-inch change in his thumb length, he MIGHT have struggled with his hook for the rest of his career, being only a great player instead of the best in the world.

Or,  maybe not, but how can one of us from this vantage point confidently declare it absolutely could not have been so

Small things in the setup and grip most certainly can be extremely important.  For example, if your swing now works well with the left thumb on top, but now you rotate it clockwise from the top by just a half inch, the effects on your swing can be huge.  Do that one little thing, and change nothing else, and you will likely hit a giant hook.

Very small deviations from "correct," at setup can sometimes make a world of difference, can't they?

At this point it's sufficient to say I disagree.

Small changes in setup don't result in significant or "huge" changes during the swing. Heck, I can take both of my thumbs off the club and my swing looks and works almost the same.

[Joe Mama]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

At this point it's sufficient to say I disagree.

Small changes in setup don't result in significant or "huge" changes during the swing. Heck, I can take both of my thumbs off the club and my swing looks and works almost the same.

Of course.  I never said ALL small changes in the grip result in huge effects.  Just  SOME small changes.

As for your two thumbs off the club:  maybe no great harm is done to YOUR swing, but if instead of two thumbs, what about two fingers?  The two middle ones of the right hand, for example.  How well, then, would you hit the ball?

Edited May 16, 2016 by Joe Mama

[iacas]

Just now, Joe Mama said:

Of course.  I never said ALL small changes in the grip result in huge effects.  Just  SOME small changes.

As for your two thumbs off the club:  maybe no great harm is done to YOUR swing, but if instead of two thumbs, what about two fingers?  The two middle ones, for example.  How well, then, would you hit the ball?

You're missing my point.

(And I could pretty easily take my middle fingers off and do just fine. I can do just fine - and my swing will look basically the same - with a ten-finger grip, an overlapping grip, or my current interlocking grip.)

I disagree with you.

And at your level, believe me, there are a LOT more things to worry about than your setup.

Besides, your setup should be pretty easy. Check it now and then, but I can teach a guy who has never played golf to set up properly. It takes no talent or skill. Just an occasional check-over.

[Jeremie Boop]

7 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

Of course.  I never said ALL small changes in the grip result in huge effects.  Just  SOME small changes.

As for your two thumbs off the club:  maybe no great harm is done to YOUR swing, but if instead of two thumbs, what about two fingers?  The two middle ones of the right hand, for example.  How well, then, would you hit the ball?

The point is, there are certain things that help/hurt the swing and set up stuff is a very small part of those things. People make functional swings with reverse hand low grips, heck people make good swings with one arm. Those people still do several important things that everyone needs to do in order to make functional swings which have nothing to do with setup stuff.

[Joe Mama]

I sense that we all would agree that this thread has run its course.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 5/9/2016 at 11:30 AM, Abu3baid said:

The funny thing is that if you search around this website on myswing threads do you know the percentage of us working on setup?  Almost 0

it took me exactly less than 2 weeks and I had all the setup issues out of the way, 

I don't know why people are so hung up on the easiest part of the golf swing, the stupid set up and grip.  Ugh.

While it may be the "easiest" part of the swing, It's also the most important. If you don't set up right, you won't swing right. Some of my buddies get all hung up on taking the club back this way, or transitioning that way, shifting their weight, yada, yada, yada! I tell them, when playing, to take care of what they can take care of. Grip, stance, alignment! In other words, their setup. Then, turn the shot loose! Just let it go!

When I could really play, I'd hit ball 5-6 days a week. Sometimes the shots just weren't happening. I'd check out my setup, and I'd figure out where I was a quarter inch of here or there! Things creep in over time that you may not notice. To say that it's simple, and takes only a couple of weeks to conquer is nonsense. Pros constantly check their setup!

[iacas]

24 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

While it may be the "easiest" part of the swing, It's also the most important.

It really isn't. I can setup by standing there and hit the ball better than an 18 to whom you teach a "perfect" setup.