DNC

[saevel25]

1 minute ago, mcanadiens said:

HC is going to have a hard time topping that.

Even if she gets a B grade on her speech I think it's more damaging to not have her go last. 

[Chilli Dipper]

2 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

Right now the Dems are seeing a bunch of children (Bernie or Bust) who saw their candidate (Bernie) get 80% of his agenda on the Democratic Platform and got Hillary to agree to it, but because he didn't get the nomination they're whining about it.These idealists think that if they throw the moderates under the bus, they'll get their way in 4 to 8 years. With a possible 7-2 conservative Supreme Court they won't for decades. But when people are thinking emotionally you can't talk sense into them. And still others aren't taking Trump seriously yet.

You see these people talking about voting for Jill Stein. Jill Stein is no more qualified to be president than I am. She's never held public office. Anyone can take positions and get their name on a ballot. She did a lot of volunteer work.

For what it's worth, there probably aren't enough remaining Bernie or Bust holdouts to matter; the media has hardly bothered covering them since Tuesday morning. Their moment has passed.

The Green Party serves no purpose whatsoever, besides highlighting the most self-involved and out-of-touch tendencies of urban white liberals. Jill Stein's platform is pretty indistinguishable from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, except that she's a doctor pushing quack science as policy.

[Elmer]

Few take aways from DNC#3.
Didnt see Biden, was still at the 19th hole 

Tim kaine's speech was good, I know nothing about him. I have heard him called "boring". He used the phrase "can I tell you something" many times!
I liked how he made the issue of Military and war personal, with his son serving. None of Trump's sons have served, no idea about Pence. 

Obama speech was great, but he is no Scott Baio!

"Don't boo, vote!"

[mcanadiens]

Just now, Chilli Dipper said:

For what it's worth, there probably aren't enough remaining Bernie or Bust holdouts to matter; the media has hardly bothered covering them since Tuesday morning. Their moment has passed.

The Green Party serves no purpose whatsoever, besides highlighting the most self-involved and out-of-touch tendencies of urban white liberals. Jill Stein's platform is pretty indistinguishable from the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, except that she's a doctor pushing quack science as policy.

Put it this way. Trump's got more problems with conservative voters that won't vote for him. I'm having a really hard time with it and Gary Johnson appears to be a reasonable alternative. ... DT's got until November to convince me otherwise, but it isn't looking good.

[Gunther]

17 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Put it this way. Trump's got more problems with conservative voters that won't vote for him. I'm having a really hard time with it and Gary Johnson appears to be a reasonable alternative. ... DT's got until November to convince me otherwise, but it isn't looking good.

Polls don't support this.  Trump's numbers better in most 4-way polls than h2h with Clinton.

Didn't watch last night but the feedback I've read on Obama's speech:

1.  Well delivered 

2.  More about him than Clinton

3.  Divorced from the reality of the past 8 years

Sounds exactly like I would have predicted.

[saevel25]

6 minutes ago, Gunther said:

1.  Well delivered 

Very much

6 minutes ago, Gunther said:

2.  More about him than Clinton

More about the state of this country now, and his view on who is best to lead it forward. This was not a speech celebrating his presidency. He hit on tones of optimism, that Hillary is the only candidate for the job, and why Trump is not the right person for the job. 

7 minutes ago, Gunther said:

3.  Divorced from the reality of the past 8 years

Your opinion.
 

[iacas]

1 minute ago, saevel25 said:

Your opinion.

Mine too. But I only watched two minutes. Said the country was more respected globally. Said Trump was not the guy because we don't need a dictator, basically. Blah blah blah.

Like any president could even be a dictator… like he didn't use similar language, etc.

I hate politics. I hate lying. The two are related.

[Chilli Dipper]

22 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Didn't watch last night but the feedback I've read on Obama's speech:

1.  Well delivered 

2.  More about him than Clinton

3.  Divorced from the reality of the past 8 years

Sounds exactly like I would have predicted.

You can have your last point, because I don't think you and I share the same reality (thank God!), but the president was right to have made his speech about his own legacy. It's generally believed that turnout will be lower this year than in 2008 or 2012; if every American who voted for him votes for Hillary (and no one else), she wins by a landslide.

[Gunther]

40 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

You can have your last point, because I don't think you and I share the same reality (thank God!), but the president was right to have made his speech about his own legacy. It's generally believed that turnout will be lower this year than in 2008 or 2012; if every American who voted for him votes for Hillary (and no one else), she wins by a landslide.

Wait, thank who?

Obama hemorrhaged votes in '12, from '08 because he had a miserable 1st term.  He'd lose more in '16 because his 2nd term has been worse. 

If she gets 69MM, like he did in '08, she will win and even if she gets 65MM, she may win.  But that's not going to happen because turnout for Dems is going to be down.  

I think Trump has energized a different base of Republican voters so there's a good chance GOP turnout will be better than the past 2 elections, especially if you go by primary participation, which was record-setting for Republicans.

I do worry about cheating, I think once again, lots of dead folks will be voting and tons of illegals, which is why the Dems want em here.  It continues to stun me that an ID isn't required in many places.

[Chilli Dipper]

Disclaimer: voter fraud does not exist.

[rehmwa]

1 hour ago, Elmer said:

"Don't boo, vote!"

Paraphrase - "I don't care what you have to say or what message you are trying to get across"

"vote" - yep, but guess what, we control who you get to choose from

 

Initially it's a great quote - but deep down it's pretty clearly a statement of who he thinks is in charge that the voters they "own" are simply drones that must comply.  We saw the same thing when the RNC shouted down Cruz too.  (Don't mess with the two party monopoly)

 

yes please - "Vote" - write in Bernie, vote for Johnson, vote for Stein, vote for Castle"

[Groucho Valentine]

I didn't see it, but I've heard from some folks at work that Obama tore it up last night. 

[saevel25]

25 minutes ago, Gunther said:

Obama hemorrhaged votes in '12, from '08 because he had a miserable 1st term.  He'd lose more in '16 because his 2nd term has been worse. 

If he had such a miserable 1st term then why didn't Romney see a giant boost in votes over McCain? You'd think if Obama was so unpopular after that 1st term that a lot of people would have switched to vote for Romney. The GOP didn't gain any significant ground in terms of converting people from supporting Obama voters over. Romney only gained 985,000 or 0.76% increase in popular vote versus McCain. 

25 minutes ago, Gunther said:

If she gets 69MM, like he did in '08, she will win and even if she gets 65MM, she may win.  But that's not going to happen because turnout for Dems is going to be down.

Well, it's more likely to get 69 million because of population growth over the past 4 years. 

25 minutes ago, Gunther said:

I  think Trump has energized a different base of Republican voters so there's a good chance GOP turnout will be better than the past 2 elections, especially if you go by primary participation, which was record-setting for Republicans.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/primary-turnout-means-nothing-for-the-general-election/

25 minutes ago, Gunther said:

It continues to stun me that an ID isn't required in many places.

Because the federal government has left it up to the states to decide the extent of their voter registration laws. 

 

[Gunther]

6 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If he had such a miserable 1st term then why didn't Romney see a giant boost in votes over McCain? You'd think if Obama was so unpopular after that 1st term that a lot of people would have switched to vote for Romney. The GOP didn't gain any significant ground in terms of converting people from supporting Obama voters over. Romney only gained 985,000 or 0.76% increase in popular vote versus McCain. 

Well, it's more likely to get 69 million because of population growth over the past 4 years. 

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/primary-turnout-means-nothing-for-the-general-election/

Because the federal government has left it up to the states to decide the extent of their voter registration laws. 

 

No, the Feds have been quite active in opposing and striking down Voter ID laws.  Just happened in Texas this month, and Holder talked about it all the time.

People didn't turn out for Romney because he was a moderate, although he did get 2MM more votes than McCain, 61 vs 59, (for whom i didn't turn out).

Didn't read the article but I still believe GOP turnout will be up because Trump has appealed to a new demographic, we'll see.

[Chilli Dipper]

11 minutes ago, Gunther said:

People didn't turn out for Romney because he was a moderate, although he did get 2MM more votes than McCain, 61 vs 59, (for whom i didn't turn out).

Didn't read the article but I still believe GOP turnout will be up because Trump has appealed to a new demographic, we'll see.

Oh, God, can we please put to rest the "McCain and Romney didn't win because they weren't conservative enough" nonsense? Look at the man you've fallen in line with. Whatever the hell he stands for, it cannot be described as conservative in any form.

Trump is not bringing in new voters. He is not going to win by record numbers. The only chance he has is to paint such a hopeless and nihilistic picture of America, that it discourages enough people who don't buy into the narrative of working-class white cultural resentment from going to the polls.

The reality is, the Democrats don't need to spend a lot of time attacking Trump. Strip away the politics, and the difference between the two conventions is that the Republicans are pushing a bleak and fearful view of America's future, and the Democrats have been pushing an optimistic and life-affirming one. I've got enough crap in my life to be constantly told about how awful the world is.

[saevel25]

7 minutes ago, Gunther said:

People didn't turn out for Romney because he was a moderate, although he did get 2MM more votes than McCain, 61 vs 59, (for whom i didn't turn out).

He got 985,000 more votes

McCain got 59,948,000
Romney got 60,933,000

Romney made a handful of mistakes. He got caught trying to appease to the GOP far right and got caught when he tried shift more center. 

 

 

[Gunther]

17 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Oh, God, can we please put to rest the "McCain and Romney didn't win because they weren't conservative enough" nonsense? Look at the man you've fallen in line with. Whatever the hell he stands for, it cannot be described as conservative in any form.

Trump is not bringing in new voters. He is not going to win by record numbers. The only chance he has is to paint such a hopeless and nihilistic picture of America, that it discourages enough people who don't buy into the narrative of working-class white cultural resentment from going to the polls.

The reality is, the Democrats don't need to spend a lot of time attacking Trump. Strip away the politics, and the difference between the two conventions is that the Republicans are pushing a bleak and fearful view of America's future, and the Democrats have been pushing an optimistic and life-affirming one. I've got enough crap in my life to be constantly told about how awful the world is.

You're a hyper-partisan, I get it, not a knock, I'd describe myself the same.  But you know that you've been wrong on your Trump predictions for the past year, every single one.  You're wrong this time too.

I've acknowledged many times here that Trump is a Dem.  I don't vote for the party, I vote for the platform.  While Trump's lack of traditional conservative principles bugs me, there is no question that his platform is more conservative than Romney or McCain, esp. around immigration which I view as one of our biggest challenges.  I recognize I'm going to disagree with him regularly but as long as he is making headway on the bigger issues, I'll bite my tongue.

As I've also said before, Trump wasn't my 1st choice but he's the only choice now.  It's a vote for change or the status quo; as 70% of Americans think we're on the wrong track, it seems change is our only option.

[boogielicious]

47 minutes ago, Chilli Dipper said:

Trump is not bringing in new voters. He is not going to win by record numbers. The only chance he has is to paint such a hopeless and nihilistic picture of America, that it discourages enough people who don't buy into the narrative of working-class white cultural resentment from going to the polls.

You do get points for using 'nihilistic' in a sentence. My 10th grade Social Studies teacher would be proud of you.