TaylorMade Rise & Fall

[GolfLug]

45 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Industry rumors claim TM will be acquired by a Chinese Investment Group but that could be impacted by an agreement TM just entered into with a Japanese firm (Fortress / Newcastle) to form a new business called "Drive Shack Holdings" to create Top Golf like facilities in Asia.  

Interesting. Does that mean TM has already separated from Adidas?

[skeedawg]

@GolfLug I think you've made some great points. I've seen this with the smartphone revolution as well, something I'm much closer to in my profession than golf clubs. There was a lot of early innovation, some good and some bad...and it drove growth for Apple, Samsung and others for a while. But now we're seeing the leveling off that is natural with any technological innovation. The advances are incremental and won't drive double digit growth anymore. Pundits scream about a lack of innovation but there's not much more to be had otherwise we'd see it. And you have market saturation, which is part of what the article talks about, so that there's only so many more new or upgrade sales to be had anymore. At this point they want to grow market share as much as possible by providing the best possible experience for end users. 

[Rainmaker]

8 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Not saying marketing didn't help cash in the windfall. Something Mizuno as your example missed out on. Just saying eventually the luster faded like it always does and other start getting wiser and caught up. I will say this, instead of Mizuno, if Callaway had the same concept, they would have been more popular.

I think your take on Adidas strategy as a shoe/apparel company using golf to get in and sustain themselves in general makes sense.  They just might not need it anymore.

I hope TM gets bought by a proper golf equipment interested group. TM still a very valuable brand name.  

I never let branding, commercials etc. turn me off..... or on for that matter. Don't judge till you hit a few. Proof is in the pudding and not the packaging. You can CHOOSE to not be confused. People lose out on good stuff because of pre-conceived notions. You just never know how gaudy or dull something might look or how silly their commercials are and might turn out to be the best thing that ever worked for you.

Agree on the 'wait till price drops' strategy. Never spent more than $150 on a driver.

True . .but it's not like you can hit every club out there, either . .at least I can't. 

[newtogolf]

8 hours ago, skeedawg said:

@GolfLug I think you've made some great points. I've seen this with the smartphone revolution as well, something I'm much closer to in my profession than golf clubs. There was a lot of early innovation, some good and some bad...and it drove growth for Apple, Samsung and others for a while. But now we're seeing the leveling off that is natural with any technological innovation. The advances are incremental and won't drive double digit growth anymore. Pundits scream about a lack of innovation but there's not much more to be had otherwise we'd see it. And you have market saturation, which is part of what the article talks about, so that there's only so many more new or upgrade sales to be had anymore. At this point they want to grow market share as much as possible by providing the best possible experience for end users. 

High tech is very different from golf clubs.  In the high tech field, planned obsolescence is a driving force for new product sales.  Manufacturers like Apple decide when it's no long technically or financially feasible to support an older product and then decide to kill support for it, which forces people to upgrade.  They also offer new features, new hardware interfaces, etc that eventually force people into upgrading.  

There's no reason, short of breaking the club or wearing it out that a person who buys irons today can't keep playing them for 20 years.  Those of us that are informed also know that drivers are maxed out and short of a few yards gained by moving weight around, there's no reason to buy a new driver every year.  I'd be shocked if one could really justify buying a new driver more than every five years.

What companies like Apple and TM bank on is vanity and peer pressure.  Kids today don't want a 2 year old phone, and many golfers like to have shiny new clubs to show off.  We don't buy based on need, we buy based on want and it's the job of marketing to make us want the things their business sells.  

[iacas]

On September 9, 2016 at 4:26 PM, newtogolf said:

The white head was more about making their clubs stand out on television (stolen idea from Canon DSLR lenses) than it was about any technology otherwise they and others would be making white club heads.  

Canon's lenses are white (off-white, beige, whatever) because they reflect the sunlight and stay cooler. Cooler glass is glass that expands and contracts less.

"Good marketing" is a secondary or tertiary reason, and likely one they didn't even consider, or they'd make more than just their telephotos in white. My 27-70 L glass is black.

[Divotmaker77]

I knew pretty early on that TM was going to crash and burn.  I think they probably knew as well but guys were getting rich so they continued their reckless behavior.  Same happened with the banks, etc.  Greed seems to destroy a lot of people.

Like the article said, the innovation and technology at first was very noticeable and that is why I like many others gravitated towards TM products.  I think what was the final straw for me was when the Rocketballz lineup came out.  First, I thought the name was ridiculous. Still think it is.  When they promised 20 more yards that was all I needed to know.  I cannot tell you how many guys I played with who bought them were bragging how much better they were hitting the ball and when we played they continued to hit the ball all over the place and their great shots were not going any further than they were before.  It was masterful marketing on TM part and many bought it hook line and sinker. The RB Stage 2 and R1 were  complete disasters. The colors were hideous and the clubs did not perform any different. I did not know hardly anyone who bought them.

The last TM product I bought was the R11 driver and frankly it was not that good a performer for me.  It looked awesome though when it first came out.  TM really did hit a home run with the color change.

I will say though that guys I play with that now have the M1 and M2 have been hitting the ball further.  Not crazy further but it does appear to be a high performing club.  

I am a Titleist guy now and happy about it.  They do not come out with something new every 6 months and their clubs hold good value.  Performance is second to none and they are a company who has always been a staple in the golf industry and I expect them to continue to be an elite brand when others come and go.

 

 

[imsys0042]

Before joining this site and following more golf news outside of my game I generally gave TM drivers and woods first look.   I really liked the TiBubble 2 and the Firesole drivers.   I kept the Firesole for many years.   Several years ago, in a vacuum, I just felt that they were always coming out with something "revolutionary" and it just couldn't be true.   I do believe that their technology used to be really good.  The missteps listed here are news to me, but strikes me as trying to keep pumping the numbers up.

I honestly think that a company with the resources and global scope that TM has can support both multiple product lines and yearly release cycles.   I never got a sense if any of their products were tiered for players of differing abilities or if there was a certain need any club was trying to fill.   Or even a lower/middle/high end pricing schema.   It seemed like they were throwing clubs at golfers every few months.

I also went to Titleist woods and have been very happy.  Price does not equate to quality, however usually higher priced items command those prices for a reason.  I am able to buy my woods from ebay (irons and wedges need to be adjusted for length and lie) and the Titleist clubs command high prices 2-3 years after release for what I see.

[newtogolf]

Titleist is unique in that the bulk of their revenue comes from golf balls, they aren't paying the bills with golf club sales so two year product life cycles work for them.  The two year product life cycles also work well because their irons are also very popular and sell well so by alternating new iron releases with woods releases they can maintain fairly constant revenue and profit numbers.  

TM doesn't have the bulk of their revenue coming from golf balls and their woods have outsold their irons for quite a while so a 2 year product life cycle might not work for them.  I'd suggest they go to an annual product life cycle where they release both new irons and woods every year.  

[Elmer]

11 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Titleist is unique in that the bulk of their revenue comes from golf balls, they aren't paying the bills with golf club sales so two year product life cycles work for them.  The two year product life cycles also work well because their irons are also very popular and sell well so by alternating new iron releases with woods releases they can maintain fairly constant revenue and profit numbers.  

TM doesn't have the bulk of their revenue coming from golf balls and their woods have outsold their irons for quite a while so a 2 year product life cycle might not work for them.  I'd suggest they go to an annual product life cycle where they release both new irons and woods every year.  

I loved the TM Burner driver-wood-hybrid. In fact I still have mine in the bag.
I never quite liked the balls, felt bridge stone and Titllest make a better ball, atleast for me.
Callway makes a better iron.
I think TM should just make driver-wood-hybrid & hats!

[newtogolf]

18 minutes ago, Elmer said:

I loved the TM Burner driver-wood-hybrid. In fact I still have mine in the bag.
I never quite liked the balls, felt bridge stone and Titllest make a better ball, atleast for me.
Callway makes a better iron.
I think TM should just make driver-wood-hybrid & hats!

I have liked some of irons TM has released over the years but I agree they don't stand out like their woods do.  I don't know how well they do with their irons, the golf store I do marketing for only stocks TM woods, so I don't really have insight to how the M2, M2 Tours and PSi irons are doing currently.  

I could see the new owners making such a decision but it's tough to be a woods only company and not feel like you might be leaving some money on the table by not offering irons, wedges and putters as well.

There are still some people that like to buy all their clubs from one manufacturer so I'm not sure how much if any of their wood sales would be lost if they discontinued their irons and wedges.