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nevets88

Apple's MacBook Pro Event (10/27/16)

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52 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Short term pain for long term gain?

 

Most people aren't going to need four adapters.

Just like most people didn't need to buy a USB floppy drive when the iMac killed that.

But sometimes Apple goes for the "future" a little too early. But on the other hand, that's the only real way to do it. Include one USB-A port, and everyone will just use that one.

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51 minutes ago, iacas said:

Most people aren't going to need four adapters.

Just like most people didn't need to buy a USB floppy drive when the iMac killed that.

But sometimes Apple goes for the "future" a little too early. But on the other hand, that's the only real way to do it. Include one USB-A port, and everyone will just use that one.

But no HDMI isn't that a bit much?  I figure that will be the standard for like another 20 years maybe... 

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Just now, Abu3baid said:

But no HDMI isn't that a bit much?  I figure that will be the standard for like another 20 years maybe... 

You still need a cable, right? So get a USB-C to HDMI cable.

Plus then you lose the versatility of having two ports on each side. So then what: do you put an HDMI port on both sides? That hardly seems ideal.

Look, I'm not going to defend Apple's position on this one, but I can understand it. Most people plug in one or two things. This will advance the industry, perhaps a little prematurely, but it will. It's typical Apple in that sense (as is being perhaps a little premature).

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Apple has always made some questionable / controversial decisions regarding their hardware and assume people will accept it because they are so invested in their OS and software.  Changing peripheral interfaces is a way to generate more income for Apple and their vendors, it is part of their business strategy.  

It seems everyone complains when the changes are made and then over time everyone complies and moves on.  When they introduced the Lightning port everyone freaked out because it made their docking stations obsolete or required they buy an adapter, but they survived and the same will be true for these new interfaces and future ones as well.  

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1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

Apple has always made some questionable / controversial decisions regarding their hardware and assume people will accept it because they are so invested in their OS and software.  Changing peripheral interfaces is a way to generate more income for Apple and their vendors, it is part of their business strategy.

No.

You're going to disagree, at least partly because it's me, and that's fine, but no. Apple does not change interfaces as a means of generating more income. The adapters they sell account for such a minuscule portion of their revenue that they would be Grade A morons to earn a few bucks against the ill will those decisions generate. Heck, often they let other companies make the adapters.

Apple sells an iPhone like every eighth of a second. They don't care about selling a few adapters. They just don't.

If Apple is guilty of anything it's often that they try to advance things too quickly and place design on sometimes too high a pedestal.

1 hour ago, newtogolf said:

It seems everyone complains when the changes are made and then over time everyone complies and moves on. When they introduced the Lightning port everyone freaked out because it made their docking stations obsolete or required they buy an adapter, but they survived and the same will be true for these new interfaces and future ones as well.  

Yep.

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48 minutes ago, iacas said:

No.

You're going to disagree, at least partly because it's me, and that's fine, but no. Apple does not change interfaces as a means of generating more income. The adapters they sell account for such a minuscule portion of their revenue that they would be Grade A morons to earn a few bucks against the ill will those decisions generate. Heck, often they let other companies make the adapters.

Apple sells an iPhone like every eighth of a second. They don't care about selling a few adapters. They just don't.

If Apple is guilty of anything it's often that they try to advance things too quickly and place design on sometimes too high a pedestal.

Yep.

Agreed, the adapters make up a small portion of their revenue but when you look at all the peripherals that become "obsolete" because of the interface change it's big business.  Planned obsolescence is a business strategy to force upgrades.  

I don't disagree with someone because of who they are, I disagree when their views are different than mine.  

The removal of the headphone jack from the new iPhone 7 requires owners buy a headphone jack adapter that plugs into (and sticks out the bottom) the lightning slot or to buy bluetooth headphones.  Most would argue the benefit of a very slightly thinner phone pales in comparison to the benefit and popularity of a headphone jack.  Is it coincidental that Apple made this move and happens to owns Beats headphones which are now focusing most of their efforts on wireless headphones?    

As for the USB-c, we seem to agree it was premature.  Adapters are a nuisance, especially for people who travel.  I have no problem with product evolution but especially for laptops, convenience has to trump design unless there's a real technological advantage, which in this case I'm not aware of.  

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2 hours ago, iacas said:

You still need a cable, right? So get a USB-C to HDMI cable.

Plus then you lose the versatility of having two ports on each side. So then what: do you put an HDMI port on both sides? That hardly seems ideal.

Look, I'm not going to defend Apple's position on this one, but I can understand it. Most people plug in one or two things. This will advance the industry, perhaps a little prematurely, but it will. It's typical Apple in that sense (as is being perhaps a little premature).

I agree. USB-C is the future. I will sorely miss the MagSafe adapter though. Have had the connection break accidentally many times w/o any harm to the laptop. There's a 3rd party adapter, but mixed reviews. 

Also, people are saying does it really need to be that much lighter and thinner, as someone who lugs this grey slate around everywhere, I understand the decision to go slim and light from a practical mobile lifestyle standpoint.

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35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Agreed, the adapters make up a small portion of their revenue but when you look at all the peripherals that become "obsolete" because of the interface change it's big business.

Not for Apple.

35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Planned obsolescence is a business strategy to force upgrades.

It isn't, really. Not for Apple. Apple products last longer for most people than just about any other consumer electronics company's products. People generally buy when they want to (or "compelled" to), not because they're forced to. My family is still using a laptop that's eight years old and until Sierra I could update the OS on it, free, every year. And it still has resale value, too… You can use iOS 10 on iPhones as old as the iPhone 5. Apple is, comparatively, generous with not obsoleting older products.

35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

The removal of the headphone jack from the new iPhone 7 requires owners buy a headphone jack adapter that plugs into (and sticks out the bottom) the lightning slot or to buy bluetooth headphones.

They included headphones, so the removal of a 100-year-old port that's outsized for what it does doesn't require anything. Plus, the adapter is $9, and ships free.

And, the cord with the headphone plug on one end (and the headphones on the other end) "sticks out the bottom" too.

35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Most would argue the benefit of a very slightly thinner phone pales in comparison to the benefit and popularity of a headphone jack.

Many would. Even most, maybe. That doesn't make them right, if this heavily opinion-based thing even has a right or wrong. More importantly, or perhaps more correctly and relevant, their argument does not mean they have the same goals, design sensibilities, perception, ethos, and whatever else you want to call it as Apple.

The headphone jack is large and single-use (for the most part). Apple did not axe it because they can sell a few $9 adapters just as they didn't put four USB-C ports on the new MBP so they can sell a few adapters.

35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Is it coincidental that Apple made this move and happens to owns Beats headphones which are now focusing most of their efforts on wireless headphones?

It's not a coincidence, but that doesn't really make your point stronger. You can buy Bluetooth headphones from any number of manufacturers, only one of which is owned by Apple. Beats competes on its own - it doesn't have a proprietary "in" to the Bluetooth standard. Also, they've been selling wireless headphones since 2012.

The entire industry is moving toward wireless headphones. Cords suck.

35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

As for the USB-c, we seem to agree it was premature.

We do not. :-) I have no real opinion on that. It takes gumption to push a change first, because a lot of people are always going to say "it's premature." History will judge whether it was premature, not us right now in the present tense. When Apple killed the floppy, many thought it was premature. When they killed the 30-pin, many thought it was unnecessary.

Generally speaking, I'd rather they push ahead than lag behind.

I said:

4 hours ago, iacas said:

But sometimes Apple goes for the "future" a little too early. But on the other hand, that's the only real way to do it. Include one USB-A port, and everyone will just use that one.

I didn't say going to USB-C was premature.

I'm not buying this generation - my MacBook Pro is fine - so I don't really care much, but the removal of the SD card slot bothers me more, because regardless of the adapter (or whether it's SanDisk or Lexar or whomever - not Apple), I need an adapter whereas in my laptop I can just slip my SD card in.

35 minutes ago, newtogolf said:

Adapters are a nuisance, especially for people who travel.  I have no problem with product evolution but especially for laptops, convenience has to trump design unless there's a real technological advantage, which in this case I'm not aware of.

You're just dismayed that your opinion or the decision you'd have made - that "convenience has to trump design" - wasn't shared by Apple in this instance.

And that's fine. You can have that opinion. I think it's clear that Apple doesn't share that opinion, and I know that they don't really consider "we can sell a few more peripherals" in the top 10 or even 20 reasons why they design something the way they do.

27 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

I will sorely miss the MagSafe adapter though.

I will too, but not a bunch. I saw some talk where some people thought it could be moved to the cable (even at the very end), but I don't know what the pros and cons of all that would be.

27 minutes ago, nevets88 said:

Also, people are saying does it really need to be that much lighter and thinner, as someone who lugs this grey slate around everywhere, I understand the decision to go slim and light from a practical mobile lifestyle standpoint.

Apple seems to prioritize thin/light even when many would prefer things like expanded battery capacity, etc.

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6 minutes ago, iacas said:

I will too, but not a bunch. I saw some talk where some people thought it could be moved to the cable (even at the very end), but I don't know what the pros and cons of all that would be.

There's this, but reviews are mixed:

 

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1 hour ago, nevets88 said:

There's this, but reviews are mixed:

Yeah, that's about the only thing I could see.

For them to put MagSafe in, I think all four ports would have to remain equals, and then you're putting magnets in more places… the existence of magnets so near to a computer alone seems possibly problematic. Y'know? :-)

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In related news…

http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/11/04/apple-usbc-price-cuts

http://www.imore.com/apple-usb-c-thunderbolt-3-price-cut

Y'all can read for the quotes I'd likely post here. I'll just quote one (from the first): "I think Apple wants to counter the notion that moving to all USB-C is a money grab — that they did it to make money selling adapters."

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Some photos of the base MBP model, very light and thin it is, mmmmm. 8 GB memory, booted up ~20 seconds. Keyboard is weird, fat, no travel.

image.jpegimage.jpegimage.jpeg

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More key travel than a regular MacBook?

I could adjust if I had to, but I really hate the keyboard on those. I would certainly trade the few millimeters of thickness for keys that feel better. Even adjusting to the retina MacBook Pros from the previous ones threw me off.

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jamo said:

More key travel than a regular MacBook?

I could adjust if I had to, but I really hate the keyboard on those. I would certainly trade the few millimeters of thickness for keys that feel better. Even adjusting to the retina MacBook Pros from the previous ones threw me off.

I can't remember what the travel was like on regular MacBooks, but the keys are almost flush with the surface. It's like I ask myself did I hit that key? Everyone. And the arrow keys are placed awkwardly. Dunno when the touchbar models make it to the stores. There were only 1-2 new MBPs in the store and I felt awkward hogging it I got off after I sensed a line behind me. Almost everyone asked me how light it was. 

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