Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[Jeremie Boop]

I'm coming up on a possible turn in my game. Except for some tee shot issues most of my game has started to come around. Most of my approach shots are better, my chipping/pitching is starting to get more accurate, and putting has definitely started improving. Of course, that being said, it's not unusual to get one part of my game back only to lose another one. However, I'm going to keep a positive mindset this time. I'd like to get down to a 13 or 14 by the end of the year and don't think that should be a problem if I can get my tee game under control.

[tdiii]

I thought I could quit this thread.  I was wrong.

Before this weekend, my last three rounds:  86 (including a triple on 18), 90, and 88. 

I had really worked hard for two weeks on pitching and chipping.  I had been hitting my irons solidly, and keeping it in play off the tee.

And then I played Black Horse and Bayonet in Monterey on Saturday:  98 followed by a 94.  My shortgame is a total shambles.  Maddening. 

[No Mulligans]

5 minutes ago, tdiii said:

I thought I could quit this thread.  I was wrong.

Before this weekend, my last three rounds:  86 (including a triple on 18), 90, and 88. 

I had really worked hard for two weeks on pitching and chipping.  I had been hitting my irons solidly, and keeping it in play off the tee.

And then I played Black Horse and Bayonet in Monterey on Saturday:  98 followed by a 94.  My shortgame is a total shambles.  Maddening. 

I can relate.  This game, golf, is all about going back and working on correcting the same flaws all over again, and again.  At least for me.

[Lihu]

6 hours ago, tdiii said:

I thought I could quit this thread.  I was wrong.

Before this weekend, my last three rounds:  86 (including a triple on 18), 90, and 88. 

I had really worked hard for two weeks on pitching and chipping.  I had been hitting my irons solidly, and keeping it in play off the tee.

And then I played Black Horse and Bayonet in Monterey on Saturday:  98 followed by a 94.  My shortgame is a total shambles.  Maddening. 

These courses are pretty difficult, your normal playing courses possibly just don't challenge your short game enough.

[tdiii]

Just now, Lihu said:

These courses are pretty difficult, your normal playing courses possibly just don't challenge your short game enough.

About the same really. 

Home course (Fountaingrove) slope is 132 (135 from the tips, which I occasionally play), Blackhorse is 131, Bayonet is 135.  

I have just regressed horribly with my shortgame, and I also struggled off the tee. 

[Lihu]

18 minutes ago, tdiii said:

About the same really. 

Home course (Fountaingrove) slope is 132 (135 from the tips, which I occasionally play), Blackhorse is 131, Bayonet is 135.  

I have just regressed horribly with my shortgame, and I also struggled off the tee. 

Struggling off the tee probably has more impact on your poor scores than horrible short game.

[tdiii]

7 hours ago, Lihu said:

Struggling off the tee probably has more impact on your poor scores than horrible short game.

Probably not in this instance.  At my home course, if you are crooked, you receive a penalty stroke (mostly lost ball, but a little bit of water and some OB).  At these courses, if you are crooked, you can at least find your ball and advance it. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by tdiii

[Jeremie Boop]

9 hours ago, tdiii said:

About the same really. 

Home course (Fountaingrove) slope is 132 (135 from the tips, which I occasionally play), Blackhorse is 131, Bayonet is 135.  

I have just regressed horribly with my shortgame, and I also struggled off the tee. 

Have you much experience playing on those courses? It could just be down to having less confidence because of lack of familiarity with the courses. That's why most people who predominantly play the same course/s all the time tend to have a handicap that doesn't travel all that well. They know their home courses greens really well, they know where they can and can't miss fairways and greens, etc.

[tdiii]

Just now, Jeremie Boop said:

Have you much experience playing on those courses? It could just be down to having less confidence because of lack of familiarity with the courses. That's why most people who predominantly play the same course/s all the time tend to have a handicap that doesn't travel all that well. They know their home courses greens really well, they know where they can and can't miss fairways and greens, etc.

Fair point; I had not played them.  On the other hand, I've found my handicap travels well, having posted decent scores at tough courses I've played for the first time in the past year.  (89 at Sonoma, 92 at Olympic Lake, 90 at Old Greenwood).  My home course is pretty penal off the tee and the greens are also challenging, so when there's room to miss off the tee and at least find the ball I'm pretty relaxed.  As a result, I generally don't feel uncomfortable when I take this grisly show on the road. 

I started working really hard two weeks ago on chipping and pitching, changing technique to try to employ the bounce more.  It was my first time taking it to the course -- with tragic results.  And, in the past couple of weeks, I had not really worked on my long game. 

Oh.  And I suck. 

[Lihu]

10 minutes ago, Jeremie Boop said:

Have you much experience playing on those courses? It could just be down to having less confidence because of lack of familiarity with the courses. That's why most people who predominantly play the same course/s all the time tend to have a handicap that doesn't travel all that well. They know their home courses greens really well, they know where they can and can't miss fairways and greens, etc.

Exactly!

That's why I concluded that his struggling off the tee is the main component. Short game is pretty much the same no matter where you play, and a seriously bad day or changing technique doesn't normally cost you more than a few strokes at a 15 HC. Very strange that he seems to be losing 7 to 10 on a course he claims is easier than his home course?

[tdiii]

Just now, Lihu said:

Exactly!

That's why I concluded that his struggling off the tee is the main component. Short game is pretty much the same no matter where you play, and a seriously bad day doesn't normally cost you more than a few strokes at a 15 HC. Very strange that he seems to be losing 7 to 10 on a course he claims is easier than his home course?

Even stranger that he shot 4 strokes better on the harder of the two courses -- a 17.7 stroke differential. 

Edited May 3, 2016 by tdiii

[divot dave]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Exactly!

That's why I concluded that his struggling off the tee is the main component. Short game is pretty much the same no matter where you play, and it doesn't normally cost you more than a few strokes at a 15 HC. Very strange that he seems to be losing 7 to 10 on a course he claims is easier than his home course? Very strange.

Or it could be he just had a bad stretch... we're bogey golfers after all. We don't have the resources of time and (in some cases) money to do what is necessary to evolve into 100% predictable patterns. We practice when we can, as best we can, and hope for the best come the weekend... (I know, some of you have the luxury of being more than weekend warriors). But my basic point is, in the chaotic ebb and flow of golf progress, maybe this guy just had a bad stretch... I'm willing to bet that he'll be right back on the bandwagon before long. 

[tdiii]

Just now, divot dave said:

Or it could be he just had a bad stretch... we're bogey golfers after all. We don't have the resources of time and (in some cases) money to do what is necessary to evolve into 100% predictable patterns. We practice when we can, as best we can, and hope for the best come the weekend... (I know, some of you have the luxury of being more than weekend warriors). But my basic point is, in the chaotic ebb and flow of golf progress, maybe this guy just had a bad stretch... I'm willing to bet that he'll be right back on the bandwagon before long. 

I'm clinging to that hope. . . desperately!

Edited May 3, 2016 by tdiii

[dave s]

Starting to dial in a couple aspects of the game early in the season. 

Wedge Play:  My game dictates from 120 and in has to be spot-on, or I'm looking at 90 or better in the rear-view mirror.  My iron set has a PW and a GW (or whatever you wish to all them), 45 and 50* respectively.  I also carry 54* and 58* wedges.  Why?  Sunday's round is a perfect example.  Course took on a lot of rain Saturday and overnight prior to the round.  It was a 'you get what you hit' day off the tee and second shots as well.

The course I played (blue tees) measured 6250.  Pretty much the outside yardage limit for me.  Many of the par 4s were 3-shot holes due to distance and the fact that many of the greens had fortresses built round them.  Lots of uphill 2nd shots, big ascending grass and sand bunkers guarding greens.  I'm sitting at 160+ on MOST par 4s due to length and a soggy course.

It was to the point of laying up with 7 and 8-irons to get into 60-90 yard wedge range.  Shoot flag with Bushnell, choose correct wedge, hit shot.  Distance control was incredibly spot on with the 10 or so wedges I hit Sunday.  The misses were pulls a 10' or so LEFT of the pins.  I'm guessing because there wasn't a FLAT LIE on the golf course more than an outright pull or bad swing. Really getting 'ball-first' strikes a small divots.

For a point of reference, my 4 wedges are dialed in at 110, 100, 90 and 80, PW through the 58*.  All yardages are full, under control full swings.  I try to NOT 'step on the gas' with any of the wedges.

Also had some shots where my 2nd shot on long par 4s, (370+ holes) went longer than anticipated leaving me (what I remember) with the awkward 40-60 yard range.  Had wedges from 48, 55 and 62 yards.  Used the 58* on all and simply dialed back my swing.  Distance control was very good from those yardages as well.  No 'scoops', 'chili-dips' or 'blades' across the green.  High soft wedges that hit and stopped.

When you don't hit the ball long like me, getting into that 110-and-in range means two things:  1) you better have the right wedge complement; 2) be able to control distance. Thankfully, it's working so far.

Second upgrade this season:  Continuing on with the 'I don't hit the ball far anymore' theme, I sought out a club that would eat up yards consistently on the long par-4s and all par-5s.  A 7-wood is in the bag this year.  I took it to the range a few times prior to playing.  It's almost to the point of being 'automatic' now.  High flight, little R to L movement and 180 or so when flushed from a good lie.  It doesn't go high enough to hold greens yet, but will get me AROUND the  green on 375-400 yard par 4 holes and INTO that 110 or closer range on MOST par-5s.  The 7-wood got a workout Sunday due to soggy conditions and the fact that I was just outside my comfort zone with the course playing at 6250.  I LIKE to keep course length 5800-6200 max.

Next up:  Getting my 5-wood working to eat up MORE yards.  Still not comfortable with it and only seeing about a 30-40% success rate with it.  Both the 5- and 7-woods are new clubs in the bag this year. Another trip or two to the range might help the 5-wood come around and be more accountable.  The ones that are hit squarely and fly decently are 190+, but the success rate with it right now isn't something I can count on. That leaves me playing the 7-wood exclusively right now.

Sundays round was a 91.  Had a few doubles, mostly bogies and a couple of pars.  Very difficult/challenging course with the wet conditions, length, huge elevation changes and my first time playing it.  Played with a dad and son who were excellent tour guides and nice people.

Hope my 'plight' and strategy to hone the game struck a chord with a few of my fellow bogie hacks!

dave

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, tdiii said:

Even stranger that he shot 4 strokes better on the harder of the two courses -- a 17.7 stroke differential. 

Are you referring to yourself in the third person? Or is there someone else involved?

 

1 hour ago, divot dave said:

Or it could be he just had a bad stretch... we're bogey golfers after all. We don't have the resources of time and (in some cases) money to do what is necessary to evolve into 100% predictable patterns. We practice when we can, as best we can, and hope for the best come the weekend... (I know, some of you have the luxury of being more than weekend warriors). But my basic point is, in the chaotic ebb and flow of golf progress, maybe this guy just had a bad stretch... I'm willing to bet that he'll be right back on the bandwagon before long. 

Even as a 15HC I was not having that much variation with my short game, and truthfully my short game is not all that much better now. It was always my long game that cost me the most strokes. Most bogey golfers lose more strokes in the long game than anywhere else. So, he's stating that his issues are completely the opposite of what the majority of bogey golfers have issues with by saying it was his horrible short game that cost him the most strokes at those two courses. Very few bogey have great driving and approach days then bad short game days. The "bogey" golfers that I know who drive 280+ yards are actually like 12 HC. They really can't shoot that much worse even with really terrible chipping. ESC takes the really bad blowup holes out of the picture. So, it makes no sense to me.

When I am shooting bogey scores in the low 90s my drives and approaches are terrible, and even though my short game feels really bad it really is no worse than any other day. You can only do so much with short game.

[tdiii]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Are you referring to yourself in the third person? Or is there someone else involved?

 

Even as a 15HC I was not having that much variation with my short game, and truthfully my short game is not all that much better now. It was always my long game that cost me the most strokes. Most bogey golfers lose more strokes in the long game than anywhere else. So, he's stating that his issues are completely the opposite of what the majority of bogey golfers have issues with by saying it was his horrible short game that cost him the most strokes at those two courses. Very few bogey have great driving and approach days then bad short game days. The "bogey" golfers that I know who drive 280+ yards are actually like 12 HC. They really can't shoot that much worse even with really terrible chipping. ESC takes the really bad blowup holes out of the picture. So, it makes no sense to me.

When I am shooting bogey scores in the low 90s my drives and approaches are terrible, and even though my short game feels really bad it really is no worse than any other day. You can only do so much with short game.

Since it makes no sense to you, the logical conclusion is he's full of sh!t. 

[Lihu]

16 minutes ago, tdiii said:

Since it makes no sense to you, the logical conclusion is he's full of sh!t. 

That's a bit over the top, don't you think?

The commonest problem with golfers is their long game. Most people blame their short game, when in reality it's their long game that is crappy. I'm pretty confident that it was your self admittedly poor tee shots are the main cause of the poor scores.

I'm not attacking you, just the fact that you seem to think your short game is your main weakness when the odds are stacked against that assertion. Not for just you personally, but for 99% of us. Not sure why you are objecting so strongly, which is why I think something is strange?

[tdiii]

Just now, Lihu said:

That's a bit over the top, don't you think?

The commonest problem with golfers is their long game. Most people blame their short game, when in reality it's their long game that is crappy. I'm pretty confident that it was your  self admittedly poor tee shots are the cause of the poor scores.

I'm not attacking you, just the fact that you seem to think your short game is your main weakness when the odds are stacked against that assertion. Not for just you personally, but for 99% of us.

Except all I said was the wheels came off this weekend and it was the short game this weekend, not the long game.  Yet you seem to have been there to observe that I have it all wrong.