Bogey Golfers Only (Index 16-22) / Breaking 90 Topic

[Wardy]

My Average score is about 86-92 (didn't understand the sand figure either, so left that out - FYI my sand percentage save is 42% average):

AVERAGE SCORE									Relationship
CATEGORY	71	75	79	81	85	89	91	95	99
GIR	12	10	8	7	5	3	2	0	0	Strong
% Fairways	81	71	61	56	46	36	31	21	11	Weak
Iron Accuracy	80	68	53	47	33	20	13	0	0	Good
Putts per Round	29.0	30.3	31.7	32.3	33.7	35.0	35.7	37.0	38.3	Weak
Pitch/Chip/Sand	5.1	7.4	9.8	10.9	13.3	15.6	16.8	19.2	21.5	Strong
Birdies	3.2	2.4	1.8	1.5	0.8	0.1	0	0	0	Strong
Pars	11.8	10.3	8.8	8.1	6.6	5.1	4.3	2.8	1.3	Strong

[teamroper60]

Not to belabor an old point, but in an email I got today was a link to this page .   The article was about using driver or 3-wood off the tee on tight par 4's.    The whole article was good but what brought me to write about it was the chart showing average proximity to the hole for tour players.  You can see the whole chart in that link, but after our discussion about proximity from 150yds, that specific yardage stood out.    From 150yds out (on the fairway), the average tour guy is 23-28 FEET from the pin.

So while we will aim for the center of that hypothetical 100' wide green and hope to be on it somewhere, they can aim their shot halfway between the center and the pin and still be playing what for them is a safe shot.

[rkim291968]

My Average score is about 86-92 (didn't understand the sand figure either, so left that out - FYI my sand percentage save is 42% average):

AVERAGE SCORE

Relationship

CATEGORY

71

75

79

81

85

89

91

95

99

GIR

12

10

8

7

5

3

2

0

0

Strong

% Fairways

81

71

61

56

46

36

31

21

11

Weak

Iron Accuracy

80

68

53

47

33

20

13

0

0

Good

Putts per Round

29.0

30.3

31.7

32.3

33.7

35.0

35.7

37.0

38.3

Weak

Pitch/Chip/Sand

5.1

7.4

9.8

10.9

13.3

15.6

16.8

19.2

21.5

Strong

Birdies

3.2

2.4

1.8

1.5

0.8

0.1

0

0

0

Strong

Pars

11.8

10.3

8.8

8.1

6.6

5.1

4.3

2.8

1.3

Strong

You are on the verge of getting kicked out of this thread ... .   Your par & birdie numbers are impressive.

[billchao]

My Average score is about 86-92 (didn't understand the sand figure either, so left that out - FYI my sand percentage save is 42% average):

AVERAGE SCORE

Relationship

CATEGORY

71

75

79

81

85

89

91

95

99

GIR

12

10

8

7

5

3

2

0

0

Strong

% Fairways

81

71

61

56

46

36

31

21

11

Weak

Iron Accuracy

80

68

53

47

33

20

13

0

0

Good

Putts per Round

29.0

30.3

31.7

32.3

33.7

35.0

35.7

37.0

38.3

Weak

Pitch/Chip/Sand

5.1

7.4

9.8

10.9

13.3

15.6

16.8

19.2

21.5

Strong

Birdies

3.2

2.4

1.8

1.5

0.8

0.1

0

0

0

Strong

Pars

11.8

10.3

8.8

8.1

6.6

5.1

4.3

2.8

1.3

Strong

I'm sorry, but if your average is 86-92, how are you a 16 handicap?

[iacas]

I'm sorry, but if your average is 86-92, how are you a 16 handicap?

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Your handicap is your best 10 of your last 20.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wardy

My Average score is about 86-92 (didn't understand the sand figure either, so left that out - FYI my sand percentage save is 42% average):

AVERAGE SCORE

Relationship

CATEGORY

71

75

79

81

85

89

91

95

99

GIR

12

10

8

7

5

3

2

0

0

Strong

% Fairways

81

71

61

56

46

36

31

21

11

Weak

Iron Accuracy

80

68

53

47

33

20

13

0

0

Good

Putts per Round

29.0

30.3

31.7

32.3

33.7

35.0

35.7

37.0

38.3

Weak

Pitch/Chip/Sand

5.1

7.4

9.8

10.9

13.3

15.6

16.8

19.2

21.5

Strong

Birdies

3.2

2.4

1.8

1.5

0.8

0.1

0

0

0

Strong

Pars

11.8

10.3

8.8

8.1

6.6

5.1

4.3

2.8

1.3

Strong

I'm sorry, but if your average is 86-92, how are you a 16 handicap?

I just looked at the handicap calculator, and if you take the average (not weighted) it comes out to 89. If you plug this into the calculator with a course rating of 72 and a slope rating of 113 you get a factored handicap of 16 with an index of 16.3.

Is this correct, or is this calculator incorrect?

EDIT: Did not see Erik's response.

[billchao]

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Your handicap is your best 10 of your last 20.

I'll accept that. I was going to qualify my original post by saying I'm not all that well informed about handicap calculations, so I demonstrated my ignorance, here.

It's just that people I know who score like that are in the 12-14 range, so there's the basis of my assumption.

Edit: I know that I had to take a few rounds out in the 85-89 range myself, and it brought my handicap up from 17, so I figured more rounds in the high 80s would yield a lower handicap. Maybe my scores are just too erratic.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Your handicap is your best 10 of your last 20.

I'll accept that. I was going to qualify my original post by saying I'm not all that well informed about handicap calculations, so I demonstrated my ignorance, here.

It's just that people I know who score like that are in the 12-14 range, so there's the basis of my assumption.

You're right, according to the same calculator, 86 comes out to 13hcp.

[rkim291968]

It also depends on how difficult your course is.  I have been playing the same home course with 71.4/128 rating.    92 there is equivalent to 2 - 3 strokes lower from 72/113 course for bogey golfer.   Where you play most can be reflected in your stat.   Not so if you play numerous different courses with various difficulty.

[Meltdwhiskey]

Not to belabor an old point, but in an email I got today was a link to [URL=http://www.golfwrx.com/145045/hit-driver-not-3-wood-for-better-scoring-on-tight-holes/?utm_source=Newsletter+12%2F11&utm;_campaign=11-11&utm;_medium=email][COLOR=0000FF]this page[/COLOR][/URL].   The article was about using driver or 3-wood off the tee on tight par 4's.    The whole article was good but what brought me to write about it was the chart showing average proximity to the hole for tour players.  You can see the whole chart in that link, but after our discussion about proximity from 150yds, that specific yardage stood out.    From 150yds out (on the fairway), the average tour guy is 23-28 FEET from the pin. So while we will aim for the center of that hypothetical 100' wide green and hope to be on it somewhere, they can aim their shot halfway between the center and the pin and still be playing what for them is a safe shot.

I totally agree

[billchao]

It also depends on how difficult your course is.  I have been playing the same home course with 71.4/128 rating.    92 there is equivalent to 2 - 3 strokes lower from 72/113 course for bogey golfer.   Where you play most can be reflected in your stat.   Not so if you play numerous different courses with various difficulty.

Makes sense. I play a handful of courses around my area and they range from 122-127 slope. I'm always surprised to see people post slopes in the 110s, I just have no idea what a course like that would play like.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

It also depends on how difficult your course is.  I have been playing the same home course with 71.4/128 rating.    92 there is equivalent to 2 - 3 strokes lower from 72/113 course for bogey golfer.   Where you play most can be reflected in your stat.   Not so if you play numerous different courses with various difficulty.

Makes sense. I play a handful of courses around my area and they range from 122-127 slope. I'm always surprised to see people post slopes in the 110s, I just have no idea what a course like that would play like.

A lot easier for non-scratch golfers.

[billchao]

A lot easier for non-scratch golfers.

On the flip side, I have played the Palm and Magnolia courses at Walt Disney World, and they're both 130 from the whites....

[CR McDivot]

Two words - Bogey Rating
the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play...

Club/Course Name	City	State
Walt Disney World Resort - MAGNOLIA	Lake Buena Vista	FL

Tee Name	USGA Course Rating (18)	Slope Rating (18)	Bogey Rating (18)	Gender
CLASSIC	76.0	141	102.1	M
BLUE	74.0	137	99.4	M
WHITE	71.6	130	95.7	M
GOLD	69.0	121	91.4	M
GOLD	74.7	136	106.7	F
RED	69.6	126	99.2	F

Club/Course Name	City	State
Walt Disney World Resort - PALM	Lake Buena Vista	FL

Tee Name	USGA Course Rating (18)	Slope Rating (18)	Bogey Rating (18)	Gender
BLUE	72.3	126	95.7	M
WHITE	70.1	123	92.8	M
GOLD	68.5	119	90.6	M
GOLD	74.1	130	104.8	F
RED	69.2	122	98.0	F

A Rating More On Course

Quote:

Many players who fall into or near the bogey golfer category choose the tees they will play by consulting the yardage on the scorecard. Even worse, they just follow the rest of their group to a specific color tee and do not consider their capabilities against the challenge a different set of tees will provide.

Most bogey golfers would be better served looking at a combination of yardage, course rating and slope. For those inclined, a little math could lead to a more enjoyable round. Bogey players should take the slope rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, 4.24 for women) and add that to the course rating. The result is a target score for the bogey player, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead.

Or simply look up the Bogey Rating (from which the slope was originally determined) here .

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CR McDivot

Two words - Bogey Rating
the one number every golfer worse than a scratch should check before deciding which tees to play...

Club/Course Name	City	State
Walt Disney World Resort - MAGNOLIA	Lake Buena Vista	FL

Tee Name	USGA Course Rating (18)	Slope Rating (18)	Bogey Rating (18)	Gender
CLASSIC	76.0	141	102.1	M
BLUE	74.0	137	99.4	M
WHITE	71.6	130	95.7	M
GOLD	69.0	121	91.4	M
GOLD	74.7	136	106.7	F
RED	69.6	126	99.2	F

Club/Course Name	City	State
Walt Disney World Resort - PALM	Lake Buena Vista	FL

Tee Name	USGA Course Rating (18)	Slope Rating (18)	Bogey Rating (18)	Gender
BLUE	72.3	126	95.7	M
WHITE	70.1	123	92.8	M
GOLD	68.5	119	90.6	M
GOLD	74.1	130	104.8	F
RED	69.2	122	98.0	F

A Rating More On Course

Quote:

Many players who fall into or near the bogey golfer category choose the tees they will play by consulting the yardage on the scorecard. Even worse, they just follow the rest of their group to a specific color tee and do not consider their capabilities against the challenge a different set of tees will provide.

Most bogey golfers would be better served looking at a combination of yardage, course rating and slope. For those inclined, a little math could lead to a more enjoyable round. Bogey players should take the slope rating, divide it by the set factor (5.381 for men, 4.24 for women) and add that to the course rating. The result is a target score for the bogey player, and is a truer yardstick of the challenge that lies ahead.

Or simply look up the Bogey Rating (from which the slope was originally determined) here .

Thanks! I just looked up the course I will be playing tomorrow afternoon. I should score 95 if I have a handicap of 18, if I read it correctly.

[rkim291968]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

It also depends on how difficult your course is.  I have been playing the same home course with 71.4/128 rating.    92 there is equivalent to 2 - 3 strokes lower from 72/113 course for bogey golfer.   Where you play most can be reflected in your stat.   Not so if you play numerous different courses with various difficulty.

Makes sense. I play a handful of courses around my area and they range from 122-127 slope. I'm always surprised to see people post slopes in the 110s, I just have no idea what a course like that would play like.

I just don't see too many courses with 110 rated tees.   I think there is too much of "good course = difficult course" perception out there and easier courses are relegated to beginner's haven.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billchao

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkim291968

It also depends on how difficult your course is.  I have been playing the same home course with 71.4/128 rating.    92 there is equivalent to 2 - 3 strokes lower from 72/113 course for bogey golfer.   Where you play most can be reflected in your stat.   Not so if you play numerous different courses with various difficulty.

Makes sense. I play a handful of courses around my area and they range from 122-127 slope. I'm always surprised to see people post slopes in the 110s, I just have no idea what a course like that would play like.

I just don't see too many courses with 110 rated tees.   I think there is too much of "good course = difficult course" perception out there and easier courses are relegated to beginner's haven.

It really depends what you are looking to do on the weekends.

I'm going to a 127 rated course tomorrow, but it is more for fun rather than a golf challenge. I could be just as happy playing on a 108 rated course as well, but that particular one is not a good "halfway" location between me and my playing partner.

I can see why you go to your course, the scenery and the winery/grill make it a really attractive weekend activity for you and your wife.

Getting to the point where playing these courses is fun is more important. Another benefit is that a nice swing feels good. It is a good feeling in an of itself, even if the ball draws/hooks OB.

[billchao]

I just don't see too many courses with 110 rated tees.   I think there is too much of "good course = difficult course" perception out there and easier courses are relegated to beginner's haven.

I wonder if part of that has to do with the fact that golf courses have to cater to multiple handicaps? Example I'm thinking of, if you're a novice skier/snowboarder, you hit the bunny slopes, right? But the ski resorts offer different skill levels.

I think it's harder for a golf course to provide that kind of level of customization. You can adjust tee boxes to a certain extent, but a lot of the difficulty of a course comes from hazards, sloped fairways and greens, forced carries, that sort of stuff. If they make the course "good" by championship standards, us bogey guys are still experiencing a lot of the same obstacles, despite playing shorter distances.

Also, just thought about it myself, but a big, flat, open field would be easier to play, but terribly boring. I think the features that help make a golf course more interesting also happen to make them more difficult, and thus "good course = difficult course."