Time to move up from SGI to GI irons?

[MrFreeze]

But in all of them I saw little difference in the trajectory. The APEX CF 16 and the Taylormade M2 had a little lower ball flight. All of the ones I tried were about 10 or so yards longer than my K15s.

[Jakester23]

On 2/2/2017 at 0:09 PM, proto said:

you will be able to spin the ball a whole lot better and be able to work on shape the ball and it s fun when your out with your friends and able to call the shots you wanna hit. actually it will make you a better player. 

 

good luck and enjoy

Why would you be able to work the ball more with a blade than a cavity back? More spin I can get down with. That just makes sense because of the location of CG.

[proto]

16 hours ago, Jakester23 said:

Why would you be able to work the ball more with a blade than a cavity back? More spin I can get down with. That just makes sense because of the location of CG

with a blade being smaller and grooves being more tighter and being made for control and workability vs a big face and grooves are spaced out lil more with more offset makes it harder for others to get the face open to hit a fade. you get so much more feel and workability with a smaller head. i have CB also and can't shape them both ways like i can with my blade.  some people can work a CB both ways. CB jus for players who want more forgiveness and distance and doesn't think about spinning there ball into the green. only thing their focus on is getting on the green and making sure their swing is correct and that the ball isn't going to to fade right hard or hook 

[Jakester23]

1 hour ago, proto said:

with a blade being smaller and grooves being more tighter and being made for control and workability vs a big face and grooves are spaced out lil more with more offset makes it harder for others to get the face open to hit a fade. you get so much more feel and workability with a smaller head. i have CB also and can't shape them both ways like i can with my blade.  some people can work a CB both ways. CB jus for players who want more forgiveness and distance and doesn't think about spinning there ball into the green. only thing their focus on is getting on the green and making sure their swing is correct and that the ball isn't going to to fade right hard or hook 

Is this just your opinion or do you have any evidence to support your thoughts? I'm not trying to be rude just wondering. Face to path determines shot shape why would it change based on the club design.

[iacas]

On 2/9/2017 at 11:24 AM, proto said:

with a blade being smaller and grooves being more tighter and being made for control and workability vs a big face and grooves are spaced out lil more with more offset makes it harder for others to get the face open to hit a fade. you get so much more feel and workability with a smaller head. i have CB also and can't shape them both ways like i can with my blade.  some people can work a CB both ways. CB jus for players who want more forgiveness and distance and doesn't think about spinning there ball into the green. only thing their focus on is getting on the green and making sure their swing is correct and that the ball isn't going to to fade right hard or hook 

Blades aren't really easier to work sideways than GI clubs. They are a bit easier to flight down because their CG tends to be a bit higher, while GI clubs want to help players get the ball up in the air.

I don't know what grooves have to do with anything. Offset doesn't matter much either.

[Jakester23]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

Blades aren't really easier to work sideways than GI clubs. They are a bit easier to flight down because their CG tends to be a bit higher, while GI clubs want to help players get the ball up in the air.

I don't know what grooves have to do with anything. Offset doesn't matter much either.

This is what I was thinking thanks for weighing in. 

[proto]

On 2/12/2017 at 1:24 PM, iacas said:

Blades aren't really easier to work sideways than GI clubs. They are a bit easier to flight down because their CG tends to be a bit higher, while GI clubs want to help players get the ball up in the air.

I don't know what grooves have to do with anything. Offset doesn't matter much either.

for a person who hitting a GI with more offset is going to fade the ball since they are not used to having to close the face. since there clubs are already set with more offset, person playing a blade with less offset will tend to draw or hook it if they pick up a GI club. i think it is easier to draw and fade a blade then it is a GI clubs which is built for someone who is looking for distance and forgiveness and not worried about trying to spin the ball back. grooves on a blade vs a GI is different in every way. take a blade out and try and spin it 140y into a green and then take a GI and try and hit the same shot. grooves on a blade will give you better results, thats if you know how to spin the ball back and can hit a blade

On 2/9/2017 at 0:35 PM, Jakester23 said:

Is this just your opinion or do you have any evidence to support your thoughts? I'm not trying to be rude just wondering. Face to path determines shot shape why would it change based on the club design.

i have both sets blades and CB and after hitting a CB and moving on to a blades i find its easier to control the ball where i want it to go. if i didn't play blades i would never comment on here about them. if your wanting to play a blade go for it, if you don't and want to figure out what the hype is. maybe go demo a set somewhere, tbh reading people's comments won't really help you out. only way to find out your self is to go play with some blades your self. I'm just telling you what i experience when i switch from a cb to a blade and will never go back to a GI club ever again. first month of playing blades I've dropped 10 strokes, they will make you a way better ball striker. if you put in the work on learning how to hit them

[Groucho Valentine]

On February 12, 2017 at 1:24 PM, iacas said:

Blades aren't really easier to work sideways than GI clubs. They are a bit easier to flight down because their CG tends to be a bit higher, while GI clubs want to help players get the ball up in the air.

I don't know what grooves have to do with anything. Offset doesn't matter much either.

I dont know about that. I find it hard to hit anything but a hook or draw with a GI iron unless i press my hands way forward. 

[Jakester23]

4 hours ago, proto said:

for a person who hitting a GI with more offset is going to fade the ball since they are not used to having to close the face. since there clubs are already set with more offset, person playing a blade with less offset will tend to draw or hook it if they pick up a GI club. i think it is easier to draw and fade a blade then it is a GI clubs which is built for someone who is looking for distance and forgiveness and not worried about trying to spin the ball back. grooves on a blade vs a GI is different in every way. take a blade out and try and spin it 140y into a green and then take a GI and try and hit the same shot. grooves on a blade will give you better results, thats if you know how to spin the ball back and can hit a blade

i have both sets blades and CB and after hitting a CB and moving on to a blades i find its easier to control the ball where i want it to go. if i didn't play blades i would never comment on here about them. if your wanting to play a blade go for it, if you don't and want to figure out what the hype is. maybe go demo a set somewhere, tbh reading people's comments won't really help you out. only way to find out your self is to go play with some blades your self. I'm just telling you what i experience when i switch from a cb to a blade and will never go back to a GI club ever again. first month of playing blades I've dropped 10 strokes, they will make you a way better ball striker. if you put in the work on learning how to hit them

Do you feel like all CB are the same?  Lets say comparing a MP54 and a Ping G30. Would the MP54 be more workable than the G30? If so why?

[iacas]

5 hours ago, proto said:

for a person who hitting a GI with more offset is going to fade the ball since they are not used to having to close the face. since there clubs are already set with more offset, person playing a blade with less offset will tend to draw or hook it if they pick up a GI club.

Only if the offset makes them aim it left. There's nothing inherent in offset that really changes anything. Just the optics: offset helps people aim the club left a bit more.

5 hours ago, proto said:

i think it is easier to draw and fade a blade then it is a GI clubs which is built for someone who is looking for distance and forgiveness and not worried about trying to spin the ball back. grooves on a blade vs a GI is different in every way. take a blade out and try and spin it 140y into a green and then take a GI and try and hit the same shot. grooves on a blade will give you better results, thats if you know how to spin the ball back and can hit a blade

That's not really the same thing. You can put the same grooves on a GI club. GI clubs tend to have a lower CG so the ball launches higher and the vertical gear effect helps to decrease spin on the ball.

But that's a function of the CG, and vertical gear effect, not the grooves.

Grooves, btw, don't do much for shots you're trying to "work" like a 6-iron on down. Not on a clean lie. You can have a groove-less face and the ball reacts almost exactly the same from clean lies.

(From non-clean lies, like in the rough, you're not trying to work the ball too much anyway, because the grass reduces spin regardless.)

[proto]

On 2/13/2017 at 8:01 PM, iacas said:

Only if the offset makes them aim it left. There's nothing inherent in offset that really changes anything. Just the optics: offset helps people aim the club left a bit more.

That's not really the same thing. You can put the same grooves on a GI club. GI clubs tend to have a lower CG so the ball launches higher and the vertical gear effect helps to decrease spin on the ball.

But that's a function of the CG, and vertical gear effect, not the grooves.

Grooves, btw, don't do much for shots you're trying to "work" like a 6-iron on down. Not on a clean lie. You can have a groove-less face and the ball reacts almost exactly the same from clean lies.

(From non-clean lies, like in the rough, you're not trying to work the ball too much anyway, because the grass reduces spin regardless.)

more offset if for the ones who can't close the face. for me i want less offset so i don't have to worry my ball hooking when i close the face. a lot of AM golfers aren't worry about trying to spin the ball with a GI irons, they are more into trying to smoke the ball as far as they can. and the most forgiveness they can get. but their are some guys who can spin the ball with a GI because they are using a softer ball which helps a lot and knows how to spin the ball. i think it's easier to hit a ball with a small face then a big face

[iacas]

26 minutes ago, proto said:

more offset if for the ones who can't close the face.

Offset doesn't do anything to help someone close the face. It helps people aim left at setup.

You seem to be referring to an old myth about how offset gives people more time to "square the face."

Even if that were true, offset alone wouldn't affect the ability of a club to work the ball, because the face is still flat and pointing in a certain direction at impact.

The rest… I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic. Or the above, TBH.

[proto]

On 2/13/2017 at 6:49 PM, Jakester23 said:

Do you feel like all CB are the same?  Lets say comparing a MP54 and a Ping G30. Would the MP54 be more workable than the G30? If so why?

mp54 more compact in-between a players and GI, G30 are more chunky irons and will go further then the mp54 and ones forged and the other is cast so feel is going to be different. mp54 will be more workable since its small head and is built more leaning towards a players iron. but if you know how to hit a draw and a fade on command then you should be able to work really any club. if i wasn't worried about distance id go mp54, cause it will have a better feel and smaller head and more control.

what are you looking for in irons?

if your wanting a iron that is small but still forgiving and has sum distance to it, id look into like ap2 714-716, apex pro or even the apex cf16.

 

but for ya do i think all GI are the same? yes cause i know what to expect and thats distance and forgiveness with lack of feel n control. 

 

but really all GI and PI and MB are all the same tbh some might feel lil softer or go lil further but if i have the distance dialed in and don't need help with it, id go with a mb or player's iron jus for the forgiveness to have.

[proto]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

Offset doesn't do anything to help someone close the face. It helps people aim left at setup.

You seem to be referring to an old myth about how offset gives people more time to "square the face."

Even if that were true, offset alone wouldn't affect the ability of a club to work the ball, because the face is still flat and pointing in a certain direction at impact.

The rest… I'm not sure what it has to do with the topic. Or the above, TBH.

then why does my ball goes left with GI when im jus trying to hit it straight, but with my MB i can hit it straight and work the ball on command?

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

1 hour ago, proto said:

then why does my ball goes left with GI when im jus trying to hit it straight, but with my MB i can hit it straight and work the ball on command?

Because the offset leads you to set up with the clubface pointing left, probably.

[Hacker James]

Interesting exchanges. It seems like all the manufacturers that are promoting the sales of their offsets (cobra, Tour Edge Hot Launch, et al), are all using the same explanation in that the offset gives more time to square the club face.   This thread would tend to disavow that claim. I can see how it would make one "aim" more left without even realizing it. I, myself, have to be careful in that regard and I make it a point of maintaining an in to out swing path and especially in how I align the club face, otherwise I will indeed, hook it.

[iacas]

54 minutes ago, Hacker James said:

Interesting exchanges. It seems like all the manufacturers that are promoting the sales of their offsets (cobra, Tour Edge Hot Launch, et al), are all using the same explanation in that the offset gives more time to square the club face.   This thread would tend to disavow that claim. I can see how it would make one "aim" more left without even realizing it. I, myself, have to be careful in that regard and I make it a point of maintaining an in to out swing path and especially in how I align the club face, otherwise I will indeed, hook it.

We've discussed how bogus the "timing" thing is in other threads… but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a few mm swinging at 80 MPH or whatever is not going to amount to much "time" to "square" the clubface.

Offset works because it tends to make people aim the clubface to the left. They line up the toe and the hosel, and the clubface points left.

[Hacker James]

35 minutes ago, iacas said:

We've discussed how bogus the "timing" thing is in other threads… but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that a few mm swinging at 80 MPH or whatever is not going to amount to much "time" to "square" the clubface.

Offset works because it tends to make people aim the clubface to the left. They line up the toe and the hosel, and the clubface points left.

That being the case, and I tend to agree that it more than likely is, the manufacturers' assertions are simply 'hype" aimed at the everyday golfer to get them to buy their clubs. They  all seem to be saying the same thing however.  But, apparently - it works.  but this is OT.