Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Nutsmacker]

5 hours ago, jmanbooyaa said:

Nonesense. There is no way you can think the Solo children are not Skywalkers. Who is their mother? Who was her father? Star Wars is the Skywalkers story. Inner conflict good vs bad. The force and how it flows. This is not the expanded universe we are talking about. Ep1-9. The Skywalkers story

 

 

My problem with Luke in this movie was the way that they killed him.  I mean, why not have an epic battle...in which he loses?  Why not!?  Whether or not it is nostalgia - he should have had an epic death.  It would have been much better had it not been a hologram thingie.  I could go on about how much cooler that scene could have been...but whatever.

I am really shocked about how anyone could think this was a well written movie.  So, I am just supposed to believe that the dude that was the "code breaker" could get out of jail any time he wanted, but just decided to do so when the plot was convenient that he did so with finn and rose in the jail?  I mean, was he just waiting there for eternity until that exact situation occurred?  I could buy that IF he was a plant from the First Order...but that was not the writing....just lazy.  

You could get into all of the other problems such as dropping bombs in space(impossible).  The fact that there is not a single light saber duel in the movie.  The whole Ben vs Luke backstory makes zero sense.  I mean, Luke spent his entire story line (in the good movies) wanting to save his father from the dark side going all the way to turning himself in just to TALK to Vader.  He refused to kill him because he thought he could bring him back...which was essentially the entire Star Wars saga.  Yet, as soon as Luke sees some dark side in Ben he has the thought of murdering him in his sleep?  That is some of the laziest, stupidest, writing in the context of the star wars saga.  It is not AT ALL consistent with the character.  

I was jokingly mentioning Admiral Ackbar before and how he got a crummy death.  But why bring him back into the movie in the first place then?  He was a memorable character from the original trilogy.  Why not have him do the suicide attack on the supremacy?  Instead we got a purple haired woman that no one cares about at all being the hero.  Why?!!?!  That scene could have very easily been replaced with Ackbar and it would have been more impactful and more respectful to the star wars series.  I could go on and on...but I just don't get this movie.  It is just not that good.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by Nutsmacker

[Nutsmacker]

This was something I came across recently that was pretty fascinating about how the editing of the first movie saved it from being a pos.  

 

 

[iacas]

There were at least two saber battles.

Laura Dern had more speaking parts than I’d have wanted Ackbar, a minor character, to have. Tough to listen to.

Star Wars is about more than the Skywalkers. Ugh. Talk about boring. Who needs 20 hours on one family?

[jmanbooyaa]

The light saber battle was a bit weak. The  main one in Snokes chambers just didn’t look right. I can’t say i really remember another one in the movie. The characters held them and look around a lot. 

Ep 1-3 Anakin Skywalker 

Ep 4-6 Luke and Leia Skywalker

Ep 7-9 a nobody and Ben Solo aka Skywalker blood line   

You can argue they are not the entire story but well placed and in the thick of the story from a certain point of view. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by jmanbooyaa

[Nutsmacker]

There was not really any duels at all.  The one in snokes room was not between two sabers...yea they were used but rey and ren didn't duel.  The only other one that I can think of is maybe the hologram thing at the end...but that was not really a duel either.  I don't think the sabers even touched...plus it wasn't even real.   Why not have a real duel and why not have Luke show some awesome jedi power?  Would have been much better to see him go out like that.  Plus, it would have now been that Kylo killed his dad and his uncle...would have seemed to move the plot along farther.  

You could have still had all that awesome dialogue from Dern and still had Ackbar kill himself. Again, it does not invoke much of anything to see her become the hero because there is no character development; in fact the entire movie we are thought to believe that she is inept leader...which she was.  Why not tell the crew what the plan was?  Hiding it was supposed to benefit whom?  I will reiterate that yes, sure Ackbar was a minor character; but why bring him back into the new movies in the first place then?  Why do that and then kill him off like that?  It doesn't make a lot of sense.  If you are trying to tell a new story(which it isn't) and you are trying to get rid of original characters(which it hasn't) why bring in characters from the past in the first place?  Why even allow to have all of these inconsistencies at all?  

[saevel25]

3 hours ago, Nutsmacker said:

I mean, why not have an epic battle...in which he loses?  Why not!?;

I bet people would still be pissed off about it. They probably think, "How can Luke die! He's awesome!"

This is the trouble directors and writers get into when they think they can make a movie the fans want. The fans can't even unify into one idea. There is no win win here for a creative vision. 

I liked Luke's character a lot in this movie. I thought it was so, Jedi Master to get one up on his former student with out even being there. I thought it was great that Luke had one more lesson he needed to learn from Yoda. 

50 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

 Why not have a real duel and why not have Luke show some awesome jedi power? 

He did, he projected himself across the galaxy. 

51 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

Plus, it would have now been that Kylo killed his dad and his uncle...would have seemed to move the plot along farther.  

The plot moved along fine with Kylo and Luke. The backstory was there. Kylo, with out hesitation, had his entire ground forces fire upon Luke. There was no conflict in Kylo to kill Luke like he killed Han. 

The fans would be pissed off if Kylo beat Luke. They probably think Kylo is unworthy to kill Luke. 

53 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

Why not tell the crew what the plan was?  Hiding it was supposed to benefit whom?

The plan. What if someone on the ship is a traitor?

Also, you can't trust Poe. He has already shown that he can not think about the big picture. 

 

[jmanbooyaa]

Just rewatched it. They betray Luke Skywalkers character, Finn and Rose were useless to the plot. The escape plan of Hondo was dumb And the end scene with the boy is atrocious. I still do not like this movie as a star wars ep. a star wars story about other characters maybe passable. Should be interesting what 9 does after this wreck. 

[Nutsmacker]

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

I bet people would still be pissed off about it. They probably think, "How can Luke die! He's awesome!"

Well, they killed him anyway - except it wasn't at all epic.  It was pathetic.

 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

He did, he projected himself across the galaxy. 

Pretty flimsy.  I think most star wars fans would prefer an awesome fight between teacher and pupil instead of a force projection.  

 

1 hour ago, saevel25 said:

The plan. What if someone on the ship is a traitor?

Also, you can't trust Poe. He has already shown that he can not think about the big picture. 

If that was indeed the case; then why not address it in the movie?  And by deceiving Poe they got a better outcome?  He attempted mutiny!  

[saevel25]

1 hour ago, Nutsmacker said:

Well, they killed him anyway - except it wasn't at all epic.  It was pathetic.

Not all deaths have to be during an epic fight scene. I find a conflicted Luke finding peace after all these years a good end. People just hyped up their idea of Luke to an unreasonable level. People would never had accepted Luke dying. To them he was this untouchable hero. 

1 hour ago, Nutsmacker said:

Pretty flimsy.  I think most star wars fans would prefer an awesome fight between teacher and pupil instead of a force projection.  

I thought it was very much inline with the Jedi finding a better answer than what a Sith can think of. All Kylo cared about was winning. Luke had a much more elegant answer looking at the big picture. 

1 hour ago, Nutsmacker said:

If that was indeed the case; then why not address it in the movie?  And by deceiving Poe they got a better outcome?  He attempted mutiny!  

They did, the vice General  put Poe in his place. I don’t need them to tell me directly that she doesn’t trust him. She even brought up his failiure in the previous fight. 

Sure, and if Poe could just trust his higher ups like a good subordinate then the traitor DJ would not have betrayed them and giving the First Order the cloaking details. 

Guess what, not everyone needs to know the plan. They just need to do their job when ordered. Poe is a pilot, that is it. 

[Nutsmacker]

8 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

They did, the vice General  put Poe in his place. I don’t need them to tell me directly that she doesn’t trust him. She even brought up his failiure in the previous fight. 

Sure, and if Poe could just trust his higher ups like a good subordinate then the traitor DJ would not have betrayed them and giving the First Order the cloaking details. 

No, that was not what I meant.  You said they didn't inform the crew because of a traitor.  When was this addressed?  And the situation with Poe is exactly my point, it made no sense using the logic you presented because the worst possible thing happened.   Not to mention the entire dialogue between him, the hondo, leia is confusing.  He is insubordinate, conducts mutiny, yet they are cool with it within a matter of 15 minutes.  Sure doesn't seem at all consistent.  

I will say that at the very least people are talking about it.  However, I find it to not be very good.  I don't like the premise at all...however, with the suggestions I mentioned before, the movie would have been better with keeping the same plot.  

Edited December 23, 2017 by Nutsmacker

[saevel25]

16 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

No, that was not what I meant.  You said they didn't inform the crew because of a traitor.  When was this addressed?

I would imply it. There is no known technology that could track a person through hyperspace. Then obviously the next assumption should be that someone gave their position away. 

Poe only told the Vice General the plan to shut down the tracker when it was found out that the Vice General was fueling up the transports to flee. Guess what, Poe F'd up again. You don't think it is GOOD information to tell your Vice General you know how they are tracking you. Maybe she would inclined to divulge more information if Poe did his job. 

23 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

Not to mention the entire dialogue between him, the hondo, leia is confusing.  He is insubordinate, conducts mutiny, yet they are cool with it within a matter of 15 minutes.  Sure doesn't seem at all consistent.  

Sure it does. This again shows the wisdom of the higher ups. They realize what he is doing. They also realize that this guy needs to be the face of the resistance. He just needs to learn some wisdom himself. 

24 minutes ago, Nutsmacker said:

I will say that at the very least people are talking about it.  However, I find it to not be very good.  I don't like the premise at all...however, with the suggestions I mentioned before, the movie would have been better with keeping the same plot.  

I get that. 

The plot might have been too character focused, and not overall trilogy focused. I like character driven plots. I like character development. I like complex characters. I like that this movie took the board mess of The Force Awakens and honed it down to something better. The characters were much better in this movie. Finn might have gotten overlooked, but he is a side character. 

People might not like some of the decisions, but there is enough uncertainty there for JJ to really make the Last Jedi work in the overall story plot. 

 

[Nutsmacker]

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

People might not like some of the decisions, but there is enough uncertainty there for JJ to really make the Last Jedi work in the overall story plot. 

Let's hope so!  

[jmanbooyaa]

I guess we do agree on 1 thing. This movie got people talking good bad or indifferent. Still didn’t like it. Oh well wait another 2 years how the 9 episode Skywalker arc to end. 

Edited December 23, 2017 by jmanbooyaa

[iacas]

@saevel25, you're not going to convince them. Let them hate the movie.

I liked it.

[nevets88]

Someone made an interesting point in a podcast - while there were great light saber fights, two never touched. Since Luke was a force projection and any contact would reveal himself, he had to completely Matrix dodge Ben. Ben and Rey never fought each other, but those plastic red shirts each wielding its own specialty weapon. 

[Jack Watson]

Ok,

I am doing a Leia Mary Poppins back from the dead post.  Then I will vanish like Luke in this thread.

I did not like Admiral purple hair gender studies.  IMO it would have been better and much more interesting to make her into a powerful female VILLAIN!

She could have stolen (maybe there’s on x wing left in the hangar since continuity in this movie has been totally abandoned) and flown out and blown up the medical frigate on her way back to join the Empire.  It could have turned out she’s a mole!  A powerful FEMALE VILLAIN!  That’s so much more compelling than watching her spaced out look on close up many times while she refuses to tell Poe what the plan is for no reason except to allow Disney to inject a side story about animal cruelty and social inequality WTF?  

This movies cinematography is flawless no doubt their very best technical people worked on this.  Too bad the plot has more holes than Swiss cheese and there’s next to zero character development just action.  Why did Luke create a map if he just went to the island to die?

Also how did she manage to pilot the ship after the BRIDGE was blown up?  Only saw it once but how is the ship even functioning without its control center?  Also how can an tie fighters fly up and destroy the bridge aren’t there shields?  WTF

WTF sums up my opinion on this movie.  

For anyone interested I suggest to you tube the following

top ten things about last Jedi that make me angry

Gender Wars the last snowflake

last jedi unbridled rage

I only had to post again because of a bit of research into the people behind this film.  Look it up and you will understand.  The prequels have so so much better story.  Why? GEORGE LUCAS CREATIVE GENIUS.

Please don’t help Kathleen Kennedy attempt to brainwash us all in a huge Disney cash grab which is what the franchise now is. 

Rip Ackbar if they were going to do the stupid light speed as unstoppable weapon you should have been the one...

 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Jack Watson

[saevel25]

31 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Why did Luke create a map if he just went to the island to die?

He didn’t make the map. He modified an existing map to hide himself. 

32 minutes ago, Jack Watson said:

Also how did she manage to pilot the ship after the BRIDGE was blown up?

Star Trek ships have battle bridges. I can see a capital class star ship having a secondary bridge.

Not even going to touch the politics of your post because I don’t care. ?

 

[iacas]

Bummer for you @Jack Watson.

I saw it again with the wife for the second time. I'm still giving it just a birdie, but I appreciated it a little bit more this time around. I obviously knew what was happening so I could see things in the looks that Luke and Leia gave each other, or that Luke's feet didn't make red salt/soil appear, or some of the other little things that are hidden in the performance.