Anything that will drop a 20 to a 15? A 15 to a 10?

[k-troop]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

Pure speculation on my part, but wouldnt it be beneficial if the 20 hcp could chip it within 10 feet consistently?

Ya, of course it would.  But what you're describing probably isn't realistic.

Generally speaking, and based on the research Erik relied on for LSW:

A 20-cap isn't going to "chip it within 10 feet consistently", because based on averages, that's the kind of thing that much more skilled golfers (like sub-5 HCPs do).

And, even if he did, it wouldn't help his score much, because the average 15-25 HCP 2-putts from 10 feet like 75+% of the time.  The stroke avg from 10 feet is probably only slightly lower (like .1 stroke or less) than from 20 feet.

That's the general idea.  That overestimates how good a bogey golfer can get at chipping, and overstates how much a 10-foot (just as an example) closer chip will impact score.

[klineka]

13 minutes ago, k-troop said:

That's the general idea.  That overestimates how good a bogey golfer can get at chipping, and overstates how much a 10-foot (just as an example) closer chip will impact score.

Thanks for the response, I clearly have a lot to learn around here haha. I consider myself a bogey golfer, and honestly that takes some pressure off of my short game now, I will be devoting more of my practice time to my 3 wood and my short irons. (pretty confident with 3 and 4 irons off the tee, its just getting on the green from any sort of distance that I struggle with)

[Blackjack Don]

12 minutes ago, k-troop said:

That's the general idea.  That overestimates how good a bogey golfer can get at chipping, and overstates how much a 10-foot (just as an example) closer chip will impact score.

I agree, based upon watching people on the courses I've played. They don't ever chip well, but moreover, they aren't going to be making many 10 foot putts, either. Three putts are the bane of bogey golfers, I think. 

From 140-90, it's mostly swing. They don't have one that works. They consistently hit fat shots and swing from outside in. If someone is going to be threatening 89, they have to get it close and stay in bounds.

I'm guessing that fewer three-putt holes might get close to a 5 stroke drop. But that means all of the above--hitting fairways, not skipping chips shots over the green like they were skipping stones on a lake. Speaking of, staying out of the water. Then, getting it close--close to the fairways, close to the green, within 20 feet of the hole, because I'm willing to be the average bogey golfer will make a three putt from outside twenty feet a huge percentage of the time.

So after swing mechanics, I'd guess putting. The short game, I'm guessing, becomes more important to break 80.

That's kind of where I am, now. Just getting the swing mechanics down so I can challenge 90 on my way to 85.

[Kalnoky]

1 hour ago, k-troop said:

If you're talking about guys taking multiple chips on several holes, they're probably not 20 HCPs.  A 20 HCP hits very few greens but makes bogey on the majority of holes. 

Exactly. 

[Buckeyebowman]

In reading Harvey Penick's Little Red Book he was of the opinion that a high handicapper, receiving good instruction from a qualified instructor, will indeed improve in "chunks" at first. A 24 will suddenly drop to a 19, then to a 14 or 15, then to a 10 or 11. However, when the handicap begins to approach single digits, improvement comes more slowly.

And multiple chips on a hole are an absolute score killer! I remember watching a Haney video where he gave three suggestions to improve scoring. The were as follows; "Eliminate penalty shots, turn two chips into one, turn 3 putts into two."

Penalty shots don't just mean hitting your drive OB, it means hitting your drive in a spot where you can't advance it toward the green, forcing you to chip or pitch out sideways. You're just as far from the green, but now you're hitting 3 instead of 2!

Many amateurs will hit their drive, maybe in the fairway usually in the rough, then hit their approach somewhere "near" the green but not on it. They need to get the pitch or chip on the green so they are putting. I have a buddy who drives me to distraction by trying to get too cute with these shots, and many times ends up chunking them short or blading them long! Especially when we're playing in a scramble. He always thinks he can make the "hero" shot, and I'm not so cruel as to tell him he's not that good but the thought has occurred!

And once you're on the green you need to get it up and in. And I'm not one of these "aim for a 3 foot circle" guys. I'm with the archery people on this one. Aim small, miss small! You must practice your lag putting.