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Is pace of play (or slow play) a real problem?


Jakester23
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Pace of Play  

129 members have voted

  1. 1. Is slow play a real problem?

    • Yes
      101
    • No
      28


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18 hours ago, iacas said:

 

The "rush" is that some people would prefer to play golf, and since it's now a seven-hour adventure (five hours+ to play, driving to and from the course, warming up, etc.), their choices become "don't play" or "spend an entire day away from their family."

 

There you go. There's your quote you asked for. You adding in drive time to the length of the day. With your own words. All I did was use the time frame you provided.

 

I'm not arguing that some people have $hitty logistical set up but that shouldn't factor in to other golfers pace of play. 

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33 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

There you go. There's your quote you asked for. You adding in drive time to the length of the day. With your own words. All I did was use the time frame you provided.

I'm not arguing that some people have $hitty logistical set up but that shouldn't factor in to other golfers pace of play. 

You are misreading the quoted text pretty badly.

I never said it was a factor you had to consider. It’s simply a fact that other people have to consider when they decide whether they can play golf on a Saturday or something. 

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
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So then its not a pace of play issue its a logistics issue?  Just trying to figure out why you would add that in then say it's not a factor?  

4 hour rounds in most cases is perfect world. That's still a 6 hour day. If a person is expecting a perfect day every time they go to the course then they will be very disappointed. 

I don't want to be absolute but I'm pretty confident that people living or golfing in a major market/ city would agree 5 hours is closer to the norm. Take away the country club guys. If each guy loses one ball or has to rehit a shot during the round  because he thought he cleared a hazard that's about 30 minutes added to the round when you drive up to where you thought it was, look for the ball, then go back and rehit. That's already 4.5hrs and that's not factoring in any person in any group ahead of you doing the same. 

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36 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

So then its not a pace of play issue its a logistics issue?

No.

And the entire point is that five hours should not be the norm. The norm should be closer to four.

That extra 25% matters.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
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3 hours ago, CaseyD said:

If some one could explain how a group who let’s say is a normal weekender group all shooting 90-92 is playing/ can play at the same speed as a decent group who are all shooting 80 or under I’m all ears.

All things being equal, the 80's group is faster. However, the reality is that some groups of better players don't play ready golf and some groups of higher cappers are very good at it.

I'm not saying this as someone who is very fast, but it's at least on my radar to try.

Jon

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1 hour ago, iacas said:

No.

And the entire point is that five hours should not be the norm. The norm should be closer to four.

That extra 25% matters.

How do we/ does the golf community eliminate playing by the rules?  And I’m not saying we are not obiding currently but if we are trying to establish handicaps there’s no way around it.  If we are trying to be honest in an honest mans game then there are going to be delays.  Even using the other guys timeline of 8 minutes a hole and an hour walking that’s 3hrs 15min. And if a person is playing to be good and establish their handicap then they are taking their time, lining up shots and lining up putts. And that 3h 15m is for a solo player. We haven’t accounted for foursomes. Even with ready golf you’re gonna add a good handful of minutes which pushes just your group towards the 4hr mark. expecting every level of golfer to play at that pace is just unrealistic.  They paid the same as you and I so how can we expect them to not get the same experience we are getting? We can’t ask them to pick up their ball after 8 minutes.

Do the courses designate two weekends a month to handicap establishment rounds?  (and that’s an honest question). The rest of the month it’s just drop and go if you hit a hazard and nothing more than 8 on any given hole?

1 hour ago, JonMA1 said:

All things being equal, the 80's group is faster. However, the reality is that some groups of better players don't play ready golf and some groups of higher cappers are very good at it.

I'm not saying this as someone who is very fast, but it's at least on my radar to try.

Yes I agree.  There are the slow scratchers and the fast 90 players. But with all things(ready golf, setting up, reading putts) equal if you take more strokes it takes longer. 

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More straw men @CaseyD. Now fast players aren’t playing by the rules? C’mon.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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23 minutes ago, iacas said:

More straw men @CaseyD. Now fast players aren’t playing by the rules? C’mon.

What? 

Not sure wtf these straw man comments are but what ever. Never said fast players weren't playing by the rules. I said a perfect round is 3:15, that's not having any lost or searched for balls, no going back to rehit a shot all of those will effect your 8 min hole time. 

 

Out of all that the only thing you came up with is me saying fast players weren't playing by the rules?👍

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41 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Even using the other guys timeline of 8 minutes a hole and an hour walking that’s 3hrs 15min. And if a person is playing to be good and establish their handicap then they are taking their time, lining up shots and lining up putts. And that 3h 15m is for a solo player.

Dude, you are way off base here. I also live in California and last winter played in between storms with all of 3 people on the course, including me, in 2 hours, WALKING. And I had to wait about 10 minutes under a tree to let a shower pass. I did everything by the rules, except remove the flag when putting, which will be within the rules starting in January, by the way.

You may have missed it, but this past year, a PGA Tour player finished a whole PGA Tour round, playing by himself (with a caddie and walking as usual) in under 1 1/2 hours, running only on the last hole to finish under 1 1/2. That is including lining putts, discussing club selection with his caddie, pulling out the flag, etc... on a PGA Tour sized course, i.e. 7000+ yards.

Have you heard about provisionals? When applied properly, they save you from having to go back and re-tee maybe 90% of the time. You also can't do math, because 8 minutes a hole is 2 and 1/2 hours. 15 minutes a hole is 4 1/2 hours, and that is a lot, even walking...

Edited by sjduffers

Philippe

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6 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Have you heard about provisionals? When applied properly, they save you from having to go back and re-tee maybe 90% of the time. You also can't do math, because 8 minutes a hole is 2 and 1/2 hours. 15 minutes a hole is 4 1/2 hours, and that is a lot, even walking...

Ahhhhh yes way off base. 8x18= 144 is 2h 24m plus the hour for walking so 3h 24m so I was actually giving up 9 min. Thanks for catching that. I was simply using the other guys example of 8 minutes a hole  

We need your courses up here, you’re not getting around any course up here in 2 hrs bud. 

12 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Dude, you are way off base here. I also live in California and last winter played in between storms with all of 3 people on the course, including me, in 2 hours, WALKING. And I had to wait about 10 minutes under a tree to let a shower pass. I did everything by the rules, except remove the flag when putting, which will be within the rules starting in January, by the way.

Let me guess you playin bixby knolwes par 3 course or something 😂😂😂

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1 minute ago, CaseyD said:

Ahhhhh yes way off base. 8x18= 144 is 2h 24m plus the hour for walking so 3h 24m so I was actually giving up 9 min. Thanks for catching that. I was simply using the other guys example of 8 minutes a hole  

We need your courses up here, you’re not getting around any course up here in 2 hrs bud. 

Why add an hour of walking? You are in a cart and are already using 8 minutes a hole. You don't need to add walking time. Or are you saying that it takes you that long to walk from the cart to the green and back 18 times, or nearly 5 minutes a hole? Pick up the pace with your feet and don't look like a (really) old man!

That course is nothing special, and as I said it was a one-off: between storms, so nobody was "brave" enough to play that day. I saw a hole in the action on the radar and headed to the course which was empty, just as I thought it would be. I don't expect to play in 2 hours, even when I ride a cart, but 4 1/2 hours (15 minutes a hole) is more than enough for all but the toughest courses, even walking.

That story (along with the PGA Tour guy) is good enough to make a point, though. Golf does not have to take forever. People who are slow at golf tend to be slow at everything: I just look how long it takes someone to get their bags out and their shoes on in the parking lot and can predict how fast they are going to be on the course... with pretty good accuracy, even when they ride in a cart.

Philippe

:callaway: Maverick Driver, 3W, 5W Big Bertha 
:mizuno: JPX 900 Forged 4-GW
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19 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Ahhhhh yes way off base. 8x18= 144 is 2h 24m plus the hour for walking so 3h 24m so I was actually giving up 9 min. Thanks for catching that. I was simply using the other guys example of 8 minutes a hole  

We need your courses up here, you’re not getting around any course up here in 2 hrs bud. 

Let me guess you playin bixby knolwes par 3 course or something 😂😂😂

Yeah I agree.No idea how a 4sum can play in 2 hrs unless they are running to they're balls and hitting without even taking 10 secs to get info and also not concerned about if others are hitting.Even if your hitting fairways and within 15 ft of hole every time it still doesn't add up.Even lady's tees I don't see that.All courses are not created equal however.No rough,small greens,short tees and very good playing can really shorten your round.By myself I can play in 2 hrs but not in a 4 sum.

Edited by Aflighter
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Everybody seems to be good with 4 hrs. That wasn’t the issue. Iacas said 5 was an issue so I asked how to cut it down now I’m accusing people of not following rules🤷‍♂️

even your provisional ball example adds time. Hitting your second tee shot, driving or walking to the area of the first shot and hopefully finding it in say 3 minutes hitting second shot and then driving over to pick up your provisional. And that’s just yours. There’s 20 other foursomes on the course during the weekend.

$hit we haven’t even factored in bathroom stop, grabbing a snack at the turn and flirting with beer chick. 😂

We have course up here Stockdale CC, it’s like an executive course almost. Super short back and forth 18. A good twosome could get around sub 3hrs. But that’s the only one up here. Riverlakes spans through like 4 different housing developments. 

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6 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

Yeah I agree.No idea how a 4sum can play in 2 hrs unless they are running to they're balls and hitting without even taking 10 secs to get info and also not concerned about if others are hitting.Even if your hitting fairways and within 15 ft of hole every time it still doesn't add up.Even lady's tees I don't see that.All courses are not created equal however.No rough,small greens,short tees and very good playing can really shorten your round.By myself I can play in 2 hrs but not in a 4 sum.

Nobody said a 4-some should play in 2 hours. I didn't say that and nobody else has either.

But, if each individual in the 4-some can play a round in 2 hours (by themselves), especially walking, as it is trivial to do in a cart, then they should have no problem playing under 4 hours as a 4-some. QED.

Philippe

:callaway: Maverick Driver, 3W, 5W Big Bertha 
:mizuno: JPX 900 Forged 4-GW
:mizuno:  T7 55-09 and 60-10 forged wedges,
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2 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Everybody seems to be good with 4 hrs. That wasn’t the issue. Iacas said 5 was an issue so I asked how to cut it down now I’m accusing people of not following rules🤷‍♂️

even your provisional ball example adds time. Hitting your second tee shot, driving or walking to the area of the first shot and hopefully finding it in say 3 minutes hitting second shot and then driving over to pick up your provisional. And that’s just yours. There’s 20 other foursomes on the course during the weekend.

$hit we haven’t even factored in bathroom stop, grabbing a snack at the turn and flirting with beer chick. 😂

In our tournaments id take 5 hrs every time.Its usually pushing 6.It is hard to go under 5 when our playing for something other than fun and you have 120 man shotgun with various skills levels.Also courses are setup tough and were playing 6500 plus yards and some are spread out.The country club types take shorter time because tees are near greens instead of driving qtr mile to tees.

1 minute ago, sjduffers said:

Nobody said a 4-some should play in 2 hours. I didn't say that and nobody else has either.

But, if each individual in the 4-some can play a round in 2 hours (by themselves), especially walking, as it is trivial to do in a cart, then they should have no problem playing under 4 hours as a 4-some. QED.

Yeah I misread that ,sorry.Single can make 2 hrs easy with nobody holding them up.

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28 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

Let me guess you playin bixby knolwes par 3 course or something 😂😂😂

Nope. You? Because if you are, 5 hours is really slow! :cry:

Philippe

:callaway: Maverick Driver, 3W, 5W Big Bertha 
:mizuno: JPX 900 Forged 4-GW
:mizuno:  T7 55-09 and 60-10 forged wedges,
:odyssey: #7 putter (Slim 3.0 grip)

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6 minutes ago, CaseyD said:

$hit we haven’t even factored in bathroom stop, grabbing a snack at the turn and flirting with beer chick. 

Slow play is much more attributed to this kind of stuff as well as not playing ready golf. Skill level is usually the least contributing factor. A 25+ hcp waiting for the green to clear for his 2nd shot when he’s 250yds out has nothing to do with his playing ability. Attitude is the biggest issue. Parking your cart in the least efficient place, watching your partner instead of preparing for your shot, waiting for partner to finish out before lining your putt up...etc. There is no excuse for these asinine behaviors.

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3 minutes ago, Aflighter said:

In our tournaments id take 5 hrs every time.Its usually pushing 6.It is hard to go under 5 when our playing for something other than fun and you have 120 man shotgun with various skills levels.Also courses are setup tough and were playing 6500 plus yards and some are spread out.The country club types take shorter time because tees are near greens instead of driving qtr mile to tees.

For sure. We can’t even throw scrambles in here. We play a ton of scrambles in our industry and it’s an all day event, like all freakin day. 

 

5 minutes ago, sjduffers said:

Nope. You? Because if you are, 5 hours is really slow! :cry:

Hahaha no kidding right. I keep meaning to take my gear with me so I can play there when I visit my crews in Long Beach. 

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