Handicap question

[rocketmutt]

+1 to JonMA1, I also have been using the Grint to track all of my scores for the past couple of years.  Assigned me to a club and tracks some of my round info all for free.  They also have a paid version that gives you more round statistics.

[DaveP043]

12 hours ago, JonMA1 said:

I'm a real dumbass when it comes to this subject so this might be a stupid suggestion, but this site provides a compliant USGA handicap card as long as you belong to a licensed club. I didn't even look for a club, they just assigned me to one.

https://thegrint.com/index

 

The USGA allows online services to offer official USGA handicaps as long as the individuals are members of a "golf club".  These are Type 3 clubs (you can see definitions of golf clubs at http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14370)   Grint has worked to set up a number of compliant clubs throughout the country, and apparently you get assigned to the nearest one.  I have some misgivings about the extent of the peer review provided by these clubs, but they're USGA acceptable, and your handicap is official.  You can check with @RandallT about his experience with one of these Type 3 clubs, he mentioned it earlier in post #5 on this thread.

[RandallT]

2 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

You can check with @RandallT about his experience with one of these Type 3 clubs, he mentioned it earlier in post #5 on this thread.

My experience was that US Handicap worked just fine. Others there said that it allowed one to enter tournaments, although there was often confusion that you couldn't be looked up via GHIN. But yes, it is valid, and it is certainly no fuss. Just enter everything yourself, and you can enter as much or as little detail about your round as you like (it can figure ESC for you, if you go hole by hole).

For a bare bones, individual experience at low cost, it is an option certainly. Just don't expect it to be much more than a data entry screen and a place to print out your card.

The "clubs without real estate" do not seem to ever meet (as per USGA requirement). The members there have posted that they feel guilty about it, but the "presidents" and officers of these clubs mostly seem like folks who created a club for themselves and didn't real care if anyone else joined their club or not. So there's no sense of community within the "club" you join. Just people golfing on their own and posting. Occasionally someone will post to the group to ask if others want to join them. Rarely did someone ever reply.

YMMV. (http://www.ushandicap.com/Default.asp)

[DaveP043]

6 minutes ago, RandallT said:

My experience was that US Handicap worked just fine. Others there said that it allowed one to enter tournaments, although there was often confusion that you couldn't be looked up via GHIN.

In reading through posts on TST, there seems to be some confusion about GHIN.  Essentially, GHIN is a handicap service run by the USGA, and offered (for a fee) to USGA-licensed associations and golf clubs.  However, there is no requirement that these associations and clubs use GHIN, they are free to set up their own systems to maintain data and calculate handicaps, as long as its done in accordance with the USGA rules.  Just a pure guess, based on a quick look at the associations that are listed on the GHIN webpage, I'd bet that somewhere between 80% and 90% of USGA handicaps are administered through GHIN, but definitely not all.  

[RandallT]

2 minutes ago, DaveP043 said:

In reading through posts on TST, there seems to be some confusion about GHIN.  Essentially, GHIN is a handicap service run by the USGA, and offered (for a fee) to USGA-licensed associations and golf clubs.  However, there is no requirement that these associations and clubs use GHIN, they are free to set up their own systems to maintain data and calculate handicaps, as long as its done in accordance with the USGA rules.  Just a pure guess, based on a quick look at the associations that are listed on the GHIN webpage, I'd bet that somewhere between 80% and 90% of USGA handicaps are administered through GHIN, but definitely not all.  

Yes exactly. If you choose a handicap service that is not GHIN, then you have to deal with occasional questions from tournament organizers/administrators- who can sometimes fall into the trap of thinking that GHIN = USGA HANDICAP = GHIN. 

But like you say, USGA sanctions other methods as well, and those people outside of the GHIN service sometimes have to clarify that to people who do not understand that.

[JonMA1]

In my area, there are few choices for affordable membership at courses which offer a handicap service, but I haven't explored all possibilities. One of the courses I'm considering might. In lieu of that, the online site mentioned above is perfect for someone like me.

5 hours ago, RandallT said:

For a bare bones, individual experience at low cost, it is an option certainly. Just don't expect it to be much more than a data entry screen and a place to print out your card.

For now, this is all I need. Manually entering rounds is super easy.

[dennyjones]

It doesn't look like GHIN has any participating courses in Michigan.

[Buckeyebowman]

On 3/20/2017 at 8:56 PM, dennyjones said:

Not trying to stir up any trouble but you could always head north get a membership in Michigan and play in Ohio as a visitor....just sayin'...

Golf Association of Michigan

I have no problem with Michigan. I used to drive through it on my way to Canada! Even actually spent some money there!

Maybe if I lived in the Toledo area, but I'm on the other side of the state. I'm actually closer to Pittsburgh than I am to Cleveland, but that doesn't mean I'm rooting for the Steelers!

On 3/21/2017 at 0:34 PM, DaveP043 said:

In reading through posts on TST, there seems to be some confusion about GHIN.  Essentially, GHIN is a handicap service run by the USGA, and offered (for a fee) to USGA-licensed associations and golf clubs.  However, there is no requirement that these associations and clubs use GHIN, they are free to set up their own systems to maintain data and calculate handicaps, as long as its done in accordance with the USGA rules.  Just a pure guess, based on a quick look at the associations that are listed on the GHIN webpage, I'd bet that somewhere between 80% and 90% of USGA handicaps are administered through GHIN, but definitely not all.  

OK, something else occurred to me. How does the HI or the handicap services adjust one's handicap to cover rounds on courses of varying difficulty. I could go out on a local goat ranch with a rating of 68.5, and a slope rating of 103 and shoot lights outs. Then I go to a tougher track and blow up so often that my nickname becomes "Dynamite"!

I could be totally off the beam here, but I thought the original idea of the handicap "index" was to allow handicaps to be adjusted up or down depending on the strength of the course to be played, based on some standard. It seems to that these associations, or "clubs without real estate" to have no such standard.

This may be an arcane question, but it just popped into my head sometime today.

[boogielicious]

8 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

I have no problem with Michigan. I used to drive through it on my way to Canada! Even actually spent some money there!

Maybe if I lived in the Toledo area, but I'm on the other side of the state. I'm actually closer to Pittsburgh than I am to Cleveland, but that doesn't mean I'm rooting for the Steelers!

OK, something else occurred to me. How does the HI or the handicap services adjust one's handicap to cover rounds on courses of varying difficulty. I could go out on a local goat ranch with a rating of 68.5, and a slope rating of 103 and shoot lights outs. Then I go to a tougher track and blow up so often that my nickname becomes "Dynamite"!

I could be totally off the beam here, but I thought the original idea of the handicap "index" was to allow handicaps to be adjusted up or down depending on the strength of the course to be played, based on some standard. It seems to that these associations, or "clubs without real estate" to have no such standard.

This may be an arcane question, but it just popped into my head sometime today.

The system calculates your differentials by the courses you play. Each course has a rating. After you have input a few rounds, I think 5, you will get an official HC. Then, when you play a course, you can calculate your course HC. My GHIN app has this function on the front page. You just give it the course you are going to play and it calculates it for you.

 

[DaveP043]

10 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

OK, something else occurred to me. How does the HI or the handicap services adjust one's handicap to cover rounds on courses of varying difficulty. I could go out on a local goat ranch with a rating of 68.5, and a slope rating of 103 and shoot lights outs. Then I go to a tougher track and blow up so often that my nickname becomes "Dynamite"!

I could be totally off the beam here, but I thought the original idea of the handicap "index" was to allow handicaps to be adjusted up or down depending on the strength of the course to be played, based on some standard. It seems to that these associations, or "clubs without real estate" to have no such standard.

This may be an arcane question, but it just popped into my head sometime today.

Here;s how it works.  Each time you enter a score, the system calculates a Differential.  To do that, it takes your score and subtracts the course rating  It multiplies that result by 113 divided by the SLOPE rating.  Looking at this, you can see that for the same total score,  a high course rating gives you a lower differential, the same with a high slope rating.  Here's an example directly from the USGA handicap manual:

Quote

Adjusted Gross Score - USGA Course Rating:	95 - 71.5 = 23.5
Difference x Standard Slope Rating:	23.5 x 113 = 2655.5
Result / Slope Rating:	2655.5 / 125 = 21.24
Handicap Differential (rounded):	21.2

OK, so after you get a few scores, your handicap is calculated based on the average of the best 10 of your last 20 scores, multiplied by 0.96.  When you go out to play, your course handicap is calculated from your handicap index by multiplying by the SLOPE rating, divided by 113, essentially reversing the previous calculation.  For someone whose index is 20, you'd have a course handicap of 18 where the slope is 102, and a course handicap of 22 where the slope is 125.  Four strokes is a big difference!

[Buckeyebowman]

Cool!

[JonMA1]

On 3/21/2017 at 9:57 AM, rocketmutt said:

+1 to JonMA1, I also have been using the Grint to track all of my scores for the past couple of years.  Assigned me to a club and tracks some of my round info all for free.  They also have a paid version that gives you more round statistics.

Just now noticed your post @rocketmutt.

I used The Grint last year just to track progress - even posting solo rounds just to see how scores at the few different courses and tees I play would impact my index. (I never printed my card or played competitively using my index).

This year, I plan to post more correctly, entering my solo rounds as practice where they won't be applied towards my index.

As far as stats, I entered one or two rounds in The Grint but stopped because the GameGolf phone app does such a nice job of tracking those stats.

[sirhacksalot]

My course is offering handicap memebership discounted to $25. If i am establishing handicap for the first time, I don't use ESC correct?  Then once one is given i start using ESC? The group that i play with plays with some hurry up rules, such as drop where you think it went in a hazard / OB and give me putts. I would assume that establishing a handicap i need to start playing provisionals off the tee, putting everything out, etc.  We have some areas that are not marked GUR but next to the cart paths are obvious gravel, we usually say move your ball off the rocks, if you are behind a tree its on you, but if you are on rocks (gravel) its a free drop (place), basically what is the best way to handle that situation, while playing with others and trying to establish a handicap?

[DaveP043]

32 minutes ago, sirhacksalot said:

My course is offering handicap memebership discounted to $25. If i am establishing handicap for the first time, I don't use ESC correct?  Then once one is given i start using ESC? The group that i play with plays with some hurry up rules, such as drop where you think it went in a hazard / OB and give me putts. I would assume that establishing a handicap i need to start playing provisionals off the tee, putting everything out, etc.  We have some areas that are not marked GUR but next to the cart paths are obvious gravel, we usually say move your ball off the rocks, if you are behind a tree its on you, but if you are on rocks (gravel) its a free drop (place), basically what is the best way to handle that situation, while playing with others and trying to establish a handicap?

Initially, you would use the ESC for a course handicap based on an index of 36.4, which is the highest allowable for men.  There should be a table somewhere near the handicap computer that shows you what your course handicap should be.  Your ESC maximum score will probably be 9 or 10, depending on the Slope Rating of the course.  Once you post 5 rounds, you'll have a Handicap Index that you should use from then onward.

Yes, you should get used to playing provisionals if you're not certain you can find your ball in-bounds.  You should putt at least to the point where you'll be certain to make the next one.  For the "unofficial" GUR areas you describe, I wouldn't have a problem with you playing those as GUR with no penalty.  In a competition, you'd have to play it as it lies, unless its marked, but many courses don't maintain GUR markings very well outside of tournament time.

Never feel hesitant about asking the pro for advice or guidance on these things, that's how most of us learned.  As you play more, you may want to become more familiar with the Handicap Manual.   This link is for the page dealing with ESC and holes not completed or not played, but you can access the complete manual on the USGA site:

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/Handicapping/handicap-manual.html#!rule-14377