Provisional Ball Ruling

[jimnm]

Let's say I hit a tee shot with driver and pulled it left. It hits a tree and potentially bounced left into a canyon that is out of bounds. I then hit a provisional ball off the tee and it ends up on the left side of the fairway. I then search for my original ball and I'm unable to find it, so I hit my 2nd shot on my provisional ball and it ends up near the green. After hitting my 2nd shot of my provisional ball, I walk towards the green and end up finding my first tee shot. It had hit the tree and somehow bounced forward, resting beyond my provisional ball tee shot. 

What is the ruling here? Do I play my first tee shot without penalty? Or do I have to play my provisional ball with a "3 off the tee" penalty?

[ChetlovesMer]

Sorry man, once you make a stroke at your provisional ball the original ball is deemed lost.

[iacas]

8 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Sorry man, once you make a stroke at your provisional ball the original ball is deemed lost.

That’s inaccurate.

You can play a provisional so long as it is played from behind where the original ball is likely to be.

Look at these two rulings.

[Piz]

You can play the provisional until you reach the area in which your original ball is likely to be found.  (Posted while another, more specific, answer was posted.)  Pipped at the post once more.

Edited October 2, 2018 by Piz

[Jeremie Boop]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

That’s inaccurate.

You can play a provisional so long as it is played from behind where the original ball is likely to be.

Look at these two rulings.

I'm glad you confirmed what I was thinking. I was pretty sure it didn't matter if you played a second shot on the provisional as long as you are not passed the original ball and the time hadn't expired for the search.

[jimnm]

7 minutes ago, iacas said:

That’s inaccurate.

You can play a provisional so long as it is played from behind where the original ball is likely to be.

Look at these two rulings.

 

Thank you! Yes that was the case. I ended up playing my original ball without penalty which was the correct thing to do. I was playing as a single and one of the guys I was paired up with explained the rule correctly.

[Groucho Valentine]

This happened to me in a tournament once, and to a guy in my group at a club championship i played in over the weekend. Thought he hit his tee shot OB, hit a provisional, played it on to the green, then found his original ball just off the fairway when we were walking up. I told him he had to play his original, but he wasn't convinced so he played both balls in. (Im not sure how that works...) He actually made the same score on both balls, anyway so i let it go. Drained his provisional ball for bogey and missed the green on the original then didn't get up and down.

I had always assumed once your declared your provisional in play and played it you forfeited your original ball wherever it might be. Turns out that wasn't true. Now i make it a point to take a little off my provisional shots from the tee just to give myself some wiggle room. Its a little trickier with green side provisionals. 

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, jimnm said:

Thank you! Yes that was the case. I ended up playing my original ball without penalty which was the correct thing to do. I was playing as a single and one of the guys I was paired up with explained the rule correctly.

Depends on when you played your original versus when you started the search.

5 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

This happened to me in a tournament once, and to a guy in my group at a club championship i played in over the weekend. Thought he hit his tee shot OB, hit a provisional, played it on to the green, then found his original ball just off the fairway when we were walking up. I told him he had to play his original, but he wasn't convinced so he played both balls in.

Maybe. Maybe not. He may have played a wrong ball depending on where the original was likely to be.

It doesn’t matter where it was actually found.

[jimnm]

 

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

Depends on when you played your original versus when you started the search.

I should have stated that I played the original ball within 5 minutes of reaching the provisional ball/area of the original tee shot. My provisional was short/right of the tree. I looked under the tree for my original and did not find it. So I hit the provisional. Then walked towards the green and ended up finding the original in front of the tree. Hopefully the original ball was the right play.

 

[ChetlovesMer]

41 minutes ago, iacas said:

That’s inaccurate.

You can play a provisional so long as it is played from behind where the original ball is likely to be.

Look at these two rulings.

I believe the spirit of that rule is if you hit a 300 yard drive that's possibly out of bounds and then you hit a 20 yard provisional. You can hit your provisional again. In this case he said he looked where his original was likely to be, and then struck his provisional. The first ball is then deemed lost. 

6 minutes ago, jimnm said:

 

I should have stated that I played the original ball within 5 minutes of reaching the provisional ball/area of the original tee shot. My provisional was short/right of the tree. I looked under the tree for my original and did not find it. So I hit the provisional. Then walked towards the green and ended up finding the original in front of the tree. Hopefully the original ball was the right play.

 

Oops, I didn't see this. I stand corrected. You were right to play your first ball. 

I assumed your original drive and your provisional drive were of similar lengths. 

[jimnm]

28 minutes ago, Groucho Valentine said:

Now i make it a point to take a little off my provisional shots from the tee just to give myself some wiggle room. Its a little trickier with green side provisionals.  

I will need to consider this next time I'm in a potential OOB situation. 👍

[Groucho Valentine]

10 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I believe the spirit of that rule is if you hit a 300 yard drive that's possibly out of bounds and then you hit a 20 yard provisional. You can hit your provisional again. In this case he said he looked where his original was likely to be, and then struck his provisional. The first ball is then deemed lost. 

Thats what i used to think. But it turns out its not aways true. 

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I believe the spirit of that rule is if you hit a 300 yard drive that's possibly out of bounds and then you hit a 20 yard provisional. You can hit your provisional again. In this case he said he looked where his original was likely to be, and then struck his provisional. The first ball is then deemed lost. 

Not true.

[ChetlovesMer]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Not true.

I know I know. I read on. At first I made an assumption. My bad. I already said I stand corrected. I was wrong. I made an error. I goofed up. I'm terribly sorry. I throw myself at the mercy of the court and beg for forgiveness. 

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, ChetlovesMer said:

I know I know. I read on. At first I made an assumption. My bad. I already said I stand corrected. I was wrong. I made an error. I goofed up. I'm terribly sorry. I throw myself at the mercy of the court and beg for forgiveness. 

Huh? You said in your last post “I believe” in the present tense.

I guess your posts were likely merged.

[ChetlovesMer]

1 minute ago, iacas said:

I guess your posts were likely merged.

Yep

[jlbos83]

The big question is whether the second shot with the provisional was played from a point closer to the hole than the original was likely to be.  The actual location of the original ball is not important in making that determination.  From the wording of the original post, I am not certain that this requirement was met.  Only the original poster can really answer that question.

[Martyn W]

On 10/2/2018 at 2:53 PM, Groucho Valentine said:

He actually made the same score on both balls, anyway so i let it go. 

@Groucho Valentine, you said this was a tournament; when you say "you let it go" does that mean you just posted the score and returned the card? If the committee was not informed that a second ball was played, the player is DQ.  "Before returning his score card, the competitor must report the facts of the situation to the Committee. If he fails to do so, he is disqualified."