Denis Pugh's Rules Changes

[iacas]

Discuss.

[boogielicious]

1. I don't understand what is so hard about dropping from knee heights. Geez.
2. Not sure why this is not clear to him.
3. I agree this should be more enforced. But not it is a guideline for 40 seconds.
4. Who gets to determine benefit?

[iacas]

Drop from Knee Height or Higher

Would he have supported "shoulder height or lower" in the previous rules? I think not. It's "knee height" for a reason - the ruling bodies wanted more balls to be playable after the first drop. They didn't want balls bouncing around, and if you got to drop anywhere from knee height or above, players would be again wasting time and placing the ball more often as they took advantage by reaching to the sky and dropping from even higher than was previously allowed, contrary to the desired effects of this Rules change.

Caddy Must Take No Action to Line up Player

That's a muddy way to write the rule that, IMO, really doesn't improve or even really change the way the rule is written now. The way the rule is written now is, as I see it, pretty much perfect. Caddies, don't stand behind your players to help line them up whenever they're taking their stance. Simple. Clear. Under this change, if a caddie waves a fly away, was he really doing that or was he signaling to aim a bit more right?

Slow Play Rules Must be Set up and Enforced

This is up to the Committee. I'd vote for this one, but at the same time… it's not really something the USGA/R&A can determine. Different situations have different times for playing at a "reasonable" pace. Is someone who takes 40 seconds to tap in a 3" putt playing at a reasonable pace, while someone who takes 41 seconds to play an incredibly difficult shot on the last hole with a one-shot lead is playing at an unreasonable pace?

Accidental Infringement that Does not Benefit a Player is Not a Penalty

Easily the worst of the bunch. The best rules are black and white, and this rule introduces two areas where subjective determinations must be made: "accidental" and "benefit." Plus, in many cases, we'd only even be able to begin discussing whether it's a "benefit" or not after the breach has occurred.

[DrMJG]

4: I'll start with the last one first, too vague to eliminate major push back from even the pros.  Your rewording is no help

3: Slow play varies too much to be codified in the rules. @iacas is correct here. Slow play, in no small part, depends on the affect on the groups behind. (exception, taking too much time looking for lost ball). For me, at the slightly beyond newbie surfer status, slow play is most often determined by the pre and post shot actions and inability to more quickly to the next tee box and being ready for the next drive before taking a stance.

2: We have already seen the outcome in the pros of this rule. Like it the way it is.

1: The knee high is great as written.  And I don't think the officials will/should do more than "close enough" (arm  basically straight down and reasonably close to pure knee height) in enforcing.  

 

 

 

 

[phillyk]

1) Dropping from knee height is a change; people will get used to it and we will forget we were even at shoulder height before.
2) I don't like his wording.  I think the way it is written right now is clear.
3) Slow play according to whom and in what type of situations? I'm always upset if someone takes more than 5s for a tap in, but take more time for a tough shot, I get it. Everyone wants the game to be reasonably paced but everyone has a different idea of what "reasonably" is.
4) Rules are rules.  There should be no grey areas at all. It baffles me that tour players don't know the rules to the very game they are professionals for. When they travel, bring out the app or book and take 30min to read a bit.  They are playing for millions, you'd think they would attempt to learn the rules first.

[Papa Steve 55]

I think 2 will have some changes. The weakness is starting to show up. McCarthy was given two shots on this rule, now it has been rescinded. His caddy did indeed stand behind him, but said nothing and walked away before the shot. The player even came out of his stance after the caddy walked away. Just standing behind the player should not be a violation. He should be able to look at his players alignment and tell him after the shot that he's lining up a bit left or right.

Fowler called it the stupidest rule he's ever heard.

[iacas]

1 hour ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

He should be able to look at his players alignment and tell him after the shot that he's lining up a bit left or right.

No he shouldn’t.

Alignment should be solely on the player.

[ncates00]

10 minutes ago, iacas said:

No he shouldn’t.

Alignment should be solely on the player.

100%.  That's part of the skill of the game.

[Rulesman]

3 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

He should be able to look at his players alignment and tell him after the shot that he's lining up a bit left or right.

And a pro can't do that for himself? What is he being paid for? Perhaps the caddie can play his putt for him?

[Papa Steve 55]

4 hours ago, iacas said:

No he shouldn’t.

Alignment should be solely on the player.

So is a golf swing, but they have swing coaches at the event. They will work with after the round, which is just a couple hours after the caddy said hey, your aiming a bit left.

I think the operative word in your reply is "should". Its not required. You may only credit the player, but a round of golf for the pros has become a team event.

[phillyk]

21 minutes ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

So is a golf swing, but they have swing coaches at the event. They will work with after the round, which is just a couple hours after the caddy said hey, your aiming a bit left.

I think the operative word in your reply is "should". Its not required. You may only credit the player, but a round of golf for the pros has become a team event.

Before and after a round is completely different than during a round. Reading a putt, picking aim points, etc with a caddy is all well and good before taking a swing. But once over the ball, it's all on the player. You can plan as a team, practice and train the swing as a team, but the act of swinging the club and playing the game is individual.

I am not the same level as a tour pro and I know, the split second after almost every hit, exactly where the ball is going (even the misses, sucks that I can't predict the immediate future on the bad misses 😁).  It's rare that I'm surprised.  I'm sure every tour pro knows the same.  They don't need a caddy to tell them what happened on a certain swing.

Edited February 3, 2019 by phillyk

[iacas]

4 hours ago, Papa Steve 55 said:

So is a golf swing, but they have swing coaches at the event. They will work with after the round, which is just a couple hours after the caddy said hey, your aiming a bit left.

Oh my.

It's also against the Rules to receive coaching or advice from your swing coach during the round, too.

During the round and after or before the round are completely different situations.