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RJ1185

Overshoot When Making Changes

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This is a mix of personal observations amd questions so perhaps not the most focussed post- apologies in advance.

 

As I've started to give more time to golf over the last year and take some lessons I've noticed a fairly consistent pattern. I have a flaw identified in a lesson, the lesson proposes a fix (be that a change in understanding or specific drill etc), I practice that fix, then finally I overshoot.

An example would be -

I had at one time a very under plane in to out swing that was identified in a lesson. We did a few things to fix this and it got gradually better and perhaps 2-3 months later I had very acceptable path numbers for my level (ranged from +2 to -2 on launch monitor). I then had a spell of playing noticeably improved golf. Fast forward to 2-3 months later and  my numbers had gone the other way and I began to struggle with an out to in path (which in turn have rise to compensations and changes to my impact conditions such as delivered lie angle etc).

Anyway, this pattern for me has been pretty common. Its happened with quite a few swing aspects. The over correction  is usually picked up in a lesson and I  can reign it back in in a few weeks often with just a slight tweak to a swing thought suggested by the pro. 

 

Is this a common pattern in students? Is it just part of the process of getting better or can the overshoots be managed  more effectively? If I take a step back and look at a longer time scale than week to week my scores are getting better. The graph would certainly be trending down if viewed over the year  but it would look an incredibly noisy signal to borrow an engineering term. 

Does this sound familiar to fellow handicap golfers? Is it something the instructors on here see in their students?

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I would say that yes, this is very common in students. You have a swing fault, which is corrected through lessons and drills, and the student begins to overdo the correction. This is just another aspect of the "if a little medicine is good, then more must be better" kind of thinking. Take the proper amount of medicine. It's like Harvey Penick said. "When I ask you to take an aspirin, don't take the whole bottle!"

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11 hours ago, Buckeyebowman said:

It's like Harvey Penick said. "When I ask you to take an aspirin, don't take the whole bottle!"

One of my favorite quotes and yes this is normal. I went to my instructor once when I was in a funk and he instantly moved my ball position back in the stance 1.5"-2".  The next time I was in such a funk that I went to him I had the ball another 1.5"-2" back so he moved it forward.

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On 3/15/2019 at 4:03 PM, RJ1185 said:

Anyway, this pattern for me has been pretty common. Its happened with quite a few swing aspects. The over correction  is usually picked up in a lesson and I  can reign it back in in a few weeks often with just a slight tweak to a swing thought suggested by the pro. 

Do you take lessons regularly or only as problems come up? At some point during the 2-3 month period where you transitioned from good numbers to too far in would have been a change in the piece you were working on. The signs should have been there that you were heading too far in the other direction.

On 3/15/2019 at 4:03 PM, RJ1185 said:

Is this a common pattern in students? Is it just part of the process of getting better or can the overshoots be managed  more effectively?

It really depends on the individual. I know I tend to overdo things I'm taught but I also don't take lessons very often so it's stuff I need to monitor on my own. It's usually not hard for me to dial it back and "do less" of something I'm working on.

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I take lessons about every 6 weeks. The overshoot is often picked up in a lesson. Sometimes I notice it in between lessons and try and rein it in myself. I can be prone to over analysing to don't like to go too far with a correction until I've checked out with an expert that I've identified the correct flaw behind the apparent overshoot.

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what is this overshoot term?  you mean and over correction? 

I would imagine this is a common problem because many instructors try to get students to fix the flaw by over correcting the opposite way drastically as the feel vs real thing usually allows for such a huge over correction that if you feel youre making an exaggerated movement in the other direction, the real is that you are now maybe doing it perfectly.  however, I feel like the failure in instruction at this point is that, at what point does your feel actually become real, and if you exaggerate to make the flaw less noticeable, eventually your normal movement will be the correct one, but you will still be trying to 'feel' as though you are using the exaggerated movement, which now ACTUALLY IS an exaggerated movement.  I guess my suggestion would be to exaggerate at first just to reboot your muscle memory a bit, and then begin to actually work on the movement that is more neutral.

 

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Yeah overshoot  and over correction would be synonymous in this context. 

I think my take home is try to be vigilant when the exaggeration feeling has become real (And to check this with my instructor).

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Yeah, this is common probably the norm.  Chasing the feel, at some point you're good but still want to feel the change. Regular checkin with instructor or close monitoring of progress should help reign this in.

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I for one have to overcorrect and go extreme - to change any swing issues. For example, right now I am overcorrecting the motorcycle move in back and downswing in order to get the clubface closed - because my natural tendency had me fanning it wide open and over time as that crept in -  that became my normal "feel good" swing. the rest of my swing is on plane - but the need for me to change that fanning of the club face and holding it open through impact requires a drastic overcorrection - which for me - means trying to really exaggerate the MM motions until it feels more normal and I get the results that I am after - in this case, a hook - which I eventually will dial back to be a draw. 

Edited by DavidM

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On 3/22/2019 at 9:16 PM, downbylaw11 said:

what is this overshoot term?  you mean and over correction? 

I would imagine this is a common problem because many instructors try to get students to fix the flaw by over correcting the opposite way drastically as the feel vs real thing usually allows for such a huge over correction that if you feel youre making an exaggerated movement in the other direction, the real is that you are now maybe doing it perfectly.  however, I feel like the failure in instruction at this point is that, at what point does your feel actually become real, and if you exaggerate to make the flaw less noticeable, eventually your normal movement will be the correct one, but you will still be trying to 'feel' as though you are using the exaggerated movement, which now ACTUALLY IS an exaggerated movement.  I guess my suggestion would be to exaggerate at first just to reboot your muscle memory a bit, and then begin to actually work on the movement that is more neutral.

 

Very true. I once watched a video of Hank Haney instructing a guy whose backswing went way across the line! Like 2 1/2 feet! He tried to get him in a more "laid off" position at the top. He told the guy, "I want your clubshaft pointing at the far left side of the range!" Of course, the guy never got close to that, but did manage to reduce his crossing the line to about 6". And he started hitting some half decent shots. After the lesson Haney told him that he never got anywhere near what he told him to do, and the guy could not believe it! 

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I definitely have to exaggerate a feeling to make an initial change.

I'm quite fond of trying to hit relatively extreme shots either side of what is optimum to find a sense of the middle ground. So I will practice having a very closed and a very open face or extremes of path fkr exampms. For me this helps me then have a sense of where that sensible middle range is. Like I have said before I just have to check I don't continue an extreme feeling too long.

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