Healthy Diet

[saevel25]

So is it better to loose weight first than regain in muscle mass, or can you do both at the same time

My basic understanding of loosing weight is to have a cal defecit. But you say you need a Cal surplus to build muscle, i am curious how is the body able to not store the extra caloric intake as fat, which it does normally when we do not burn calories we eat? i never got this point, because muscle is built from protein right, so can you basically eat enough protein to build muscle and keep your calories at or under what you burn and still loose weight and gain muscle, or am i wrong on this?

[newtogolf]

So is it better to loose weight first than regain in muscle mass, or can you do both at the same time

There isn't a simple answer. The first factor is the total amount you want to lose, if it's over 15 - 20 percent of your body weight you're better off cutting first as you likely have a lot of body fat to lose. If it's less than 10 - 15 percent, then I don't always believe a cut cycle is the best approach. The problem is most people find it easier mentally to lose the weight first then add muscle mass because trying to reduce fat while at the same time adding muscle is difficult to measure over short time periods. People like to get on a scale and see results. Trying to reduce body fat while increasing lean tissue won't show much change on a scale over short periods of time and it's not realistic to get accurate body fat composition tests done on a weekly basis.

The problem with cutting first, even done correctly will result in some muscle loss (roughly 10%). This is partially why yo-yo diets are dangerous because most people don't cut right and end up with muscle loss representing up to 30% - 40% of their total weight loss. Then they go off the diet, gain back 80% - 90% fat, only to repeat the process over and over. Over time, this is how people end up "skinny fat", where their weight is appropriate for their height, body type and age, but their body fat percentage is too high. If you don't have much to lose, it's best to maintain BMR, increase cardio and take in sufficient or slightly higher amounts of protein than needed. Doing so will ensure their is plenty of protein to use for rebuilding damaged muscles and make your body less likely to break down muscle.

[CassinoNorth]

Clean calories and only enough to promote the growth of muscle, not to cause significant fat storage. I used to be a personal trainer, and many people would gain 30 lbs during bulk phases (mostly fat) then starve themselve during a cut phase which would eliminate most of the muscle gains they made. Adding muscle and keeping it isn't easy if your diet isn't right, no matter how hard you work at the gym.

I'm not tracking my food as well as I probably should, but I'm not too worried about adding 10-15 lbs of fat on top of the muscle.

Losing 2 lbs a week for me is pretty simple and I can keep my protein intake over 180g pretty easily.

[TN94z]

There isn't a simple answer. The first factor is the total amount you want to lose, if it's over 15 - 20 percent of your body weight you're better off cutting first as you likely have a lot of body fat to lose. If it's less than 10 - 15 percent, then I don't always believe a cut cycle is the best approach. The problem is most people find it easier mentally to lose the weight first then add muscle mass because trying to reduce fat while at the same time adding muscle is difficult to measure over short time periods. People like to get on a scale and see results. Trying to reduce body fat while increasing lean tissue won't show much change on a scale over short periods of time and it's not realistic to get accurate body fat composition tests done on a weekly basis.

Good advice.

So is it better to loose weight first than regain in muscle mass, or can you do both at the same time

You can do what is called a "recomposition" which is basically losing body fat while gaining muscle. It's a slow process as Newtogolf stated above and that is what frustrates most people. If you plan on doing something like this (IMO, if you are gaining muscle while trying to lose fat period) I would stay off the scale and use the mirror, pictures, family members, clothes, etc....to dictate whether I was losing weight. Muscle weighs more than fat, I'm sure you know, so if you gain muscle while dropping fat, your weight may not change much and that makes many people think nothing is happening.

For instance, guy A wants to do a body recomposition and starts out at say 180lbs with 20%BF. He starts the training and when it's over, he may weigh 180lbs still, but might only have 10%BF. Scales screw with your mind....I know, I have been there Always remember, it took years to put that fat on....it won't come off in 4 weeks.

I'm not tracking my food as well as I probably should, but I'm not too worried about adding 10-15 lbs of fat on top of the muscle.

I would say that 2lbs per week is the max you should lose. Under 200lbs most people reccommend 1.5lbs per week and over 200lbs, 2lbs per week.

[ks8829]

Last year, I exercised everyday and watched what I ate. Currently, I am simply watching what I eat, more vegetable, reduced red meat and portion and have lost 8 pounds over a period of about 2 months without exercising everyday, but a round of golf walking 18 holes.

[Leftygolfer]

I've lost a bunch of wieght in the last two years and kept it off. I was 247 at one time and I'm as of this morning 196.4. I've been as light as 189. I did it most by counting calories and cardio, but now I'm trying to change my wieght. I went to a nutrionist Brian @ wiefit.com and he put me on a diet of 2200 calories, 6 meals a day, 150 grams of protein a day. My weight didn't change much as I already lost the weight but he took measurements everty time. The scale didn't change but my fat went down. I went from 19.8 to 14.5 percent body fat over the summer. I haven't been back for a while but I know I am lean as I was even with the added 8 pounds. I've been hitting it really hard in the gym and put on muscle over the past two months. I can tell from my wedding ring if I'm heavy or not. If it is loose, my weight is good. It is amazing how much your fingers shrink losing weight. I lost my first ring throwing a stone b/c I got it at my fat wieght and it was just way to big.

But back to the diet. My guy, he is a big diet guy. He believes in loosing fat and adding lean mass at the same time. Not big in cardio, as he says after a certain point you start burning muscle and not fat. He said limit it to 30 minutes a day and do it post wieght training if you do them together.

Here's my diet that he gave me. My goal is/was to add lean mass, loss fat.

8:00 6 Egg whites, 1 egg, 1/2 cup oats.

10:30 Protein shake or 6 ounces lean meat, apple.

1:00 8 oz lean meat, 1/2 cup fiberous carb (brockley or carrots), 1/2 cup complex carb or half bake potato, fat (for me always 20 almonds)

330 Protein shake and 20 almonds

6:00 same as lunch

8:30 protein shake or lean meat, 1/2 cup fiberous carb.

Also, pre-workout, protein shake (UMP) and a piece of fruit. Post workout, whey protein (muscle provider) and piece of fruit.

I highly recommend Beverely International UMP. It is way better than the cheaper proteins.

[TN94z]

It is amazing how much your fingers shrink losing weight. I lost my first ring throwing a stone b/c I got it at my fat wieght and it was just way to big.

Yeah, you will notice weight loss in the extremities first. As for cardio, HIIT is a good source of cardio while building mass.

[saevel25]

Well i am 6'1", weight 230lbs, but i know that i have a good amount of muscle... The target weight for my height is 180lbs, i am trying to get to 200 lbs... But i don't want to loose my muscle i have now, i am never looking to look ripped, with hugh arms, things like that. I am just curious the best route to take to minimize muscle losse and maximize weight loss

[newtogolf]

Well i am 6'1", weight 230lbs, but i know that i have a good amount of muscle... The target weight for my height is 180lbs, i am trying to get to 200 lbs... But i don't want to loose my muscle i have now, i am never looking to look ripped, with hugh arms, things like that. I am just curious the best route to take to minimize muscle losse and maximize weight loss

The "target" weight is created by insurance companies that take no consideration for lean tissue. Consider a pro body builder at 6' 1" weights roughly 250 lbs and under 10% body fat is considered obese by these charts. Conversely, a guy that's 6' 1" and weighs 180 could have 25% or more body fat% and be considered at their target weight when in reality they are obese.

The charts are bogus, and have little correlation with a healthy body. You should have someone that knows how to use body calipers determine your body fat % or go for a body immersion test. I'm currently 6' 1" 220 lbs my body fat% is 16%, in order to meet the target weight of these charts and maintain a healthy body fat percentage I'd have to lose a substantial amount of muscle. Body weight is only a variable in the overall equation, body fat percentage in my opinion is the most important.

[Leftygolfer]

Well i am 6'1", weight 230lbs, but i know that i have a good amount of muscle... The target weight for my height is 180lbs, i am trying to get to 200 lbs... But i don't want to loose my muscle i have now, i am never looking to look ripped, with hugh arms, things like that. I am just curious the best route to take to minimize muscle losse and maximize weight loss

I'd diet well and lift wieghts cardio. It takes alot to get ripped, by that I mean more than just lifting heavy and eating tons of protein. I've had success both ways. I counted calories and did mostly cardio, and I ate the diet above and did almost strictly heavy lifting. The key I believe is diet. You can miss workouts, thats fine. But one bad day diet wise can undue all the good you do. Right now I'm pretty stagnant with my wieght. I diet really well mon-fri, then drink some beers and cheat a bit over the weekends. every week I would weight 195 on Monday then 189 on Friday, and back again. So if your trying to loose weight don't cheat on the diet. I'm not right now so I am less strict than I would be if I was really trying hard. But I am still very conscious of my weight and what I eat. You can gain weight back really quickly if you don't watch out. If you aren't moving forward, your moving backwards.

[newtogolf]

Right now I'm pretty stagnant with my wieght. I diet really well mon-fri, then drink some beers and cheat a bit over the weekends. every week I would weight 195 on Monday then 189 on Friday, and back again.

The weight change you're seeing is most likely water and the emptying and re-filling of your colon. In order to actually gain that much weight you'd have to consume 21,000 calories (3500x6) in excess of your BMR which while possible isn't likely. Carbs are like a sponge, so when you increase consumption, most of the water you intake is absorbed by them and doesn't get removed until a few days later when they reach your colon.

[TN94z]

I'd diet well and lift wieghts cardio. It takes alot to get ripped, by that I mean more than just lifting heavy and eating tons of protein. I've had success both ways. I counted calories and did mostly cardio, and I ate the diet above and did almost strictly heavy lifting. The key I believe is diet. You can miss workouts, thats fine. But one bad day diet wise can undue all the good you do. Right now I'm pretty stagnant with my wieght. I diet really well mon-fri, then drink some beers and cheat a bit over the weekends. every week I would weight 195 on Monday then 189 on Friday, and back again. So if your trying to loose weight don't cheat on the diet. I'm not right now so I am less strict than I would be if I was really trying hard. But I am still very conscious of my weight and what I eat. You can gain weight back really quickly if you don't watch out. If you aren't moving forward, your moving backwards.

I don't think one day is going to ruin a diet. You would have to eat crap constantly ALL day long to really affect it that much. Many, many diets have "cheat days." This doesn't mean you can eat what you want all day, but you could go to your favorite restaurant and have your favorite meal. The same applies for holidays. Eat the Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner....it's not going to kill 2 months progress in one day. It's good to be strict, but unless you are a bodybuilder training to be on stage in a few months, you need to give yourself some breaks. Just don't let it become a habit because you will get right back in the same boat you were in when you started.

[CassinoNorth]

A cheat meal/day here or there is absolutely essential to not going batshit crazy during dieting. It won't kill your diet.

[Leftygolfer]

I don't think one day is going to ruin a diet. You would have to eat crap constantly ALL day long to really affect it that much. Many, many diets have "cheat days." This doesn't mean you can eat what you want all day, but you could go to your favorite restaurant and have your favorite meal. The same applies for holidays. Eat the Christmas dinner or Thanksgiving dinner....it's not going to kill 2 months progress in one day. It's good to be strict, but unless you are a bodybuilder training to be on stage in a few months, you need to give yourself some breaks. Just don't let it become a habit because you will get right back in the same boat you were in when you started.

Not one day you've undone what you did for 2 years but one really bad day cancels out a whole good week. I'm very conscious of my weight b/c I fear gaining it back. It was really hard to lose but pretty easy to maintain as long as I'm active. I've recently went up in weight by around 5 pounds and I think I put on some lean mass. I've been pushing myself hard in the gym lifting and I can tell that I'm not any fatter but I'm for sure heavier.

[TN94z]

Not one day you've undone what you did for 2 years but one really bad day cancels out a whole good week. I'm very conscious of my weight b/c I fear gaining it back. It was really hard to lose but pretty easy to maintain as long as I'm active. I've recently went up in weight by around 5 pounds and I think I put on some lean mass. I've been pushing myself hard in the gym lifting and I can tell that I'm not any fatter but I'm for sure heavier.

I don't think it does for most (I'm sure it affects different people differently). I have been on a diet recently and I went to On The Border(Mexican restaurant) last Saturday and ate two meals from On The Border with dessert and it didn't hurt my diet at all. I was shooting to lose around 2lbs. I lost 5.2 even after the meal. I didn't do anything exercise to account for the meal either. Every diet I have ever done has had a cheat day once per week. Like I said though, you can't eat like crap all day long, but getting in your favorite meal is not going to kill the week. Now, if you were single digit BF, you might notice it a little more than most.

Basically, if I diet all week and I have lost say 4lbs on friday, I am not going to gain that 4lbs back by going out and eating a good meal on Saturday night. If you have enough will power to never cheat on your diet and it never burns you out, then that's great!!! But the majority of people are not going to be able to do this and that is where the cheat day comes in. The only way that I could see a day hurting you is 1) if you just eat crap all day long with no regards to calorie intake or anything or 2) this cheat day turns into a habit of gradually sneaking the junk back in your diet. I guess technically you "could" kill a week with one day's eating (especially if your metabolism was shot due to a really low calorie intake)...but man, I would hate to see what all you would have to eat to do it! As I have stated previously, I am not nutritionist. I am just going by experience. That's cool man that you are keeping it off! I feel the same way. Once I get this weight off, I can maintain it fairly easy. I have eaten whatever I want for the past 10 years probably and have averaged around the same weight for a while. I am 32 years old now, and I decided that if I didn't get the weight off that I wanted off, it was only going to get harder as I got older. So, I want to drop the body fat and then add a little lean muscle. Overall, I will be 15lbs lighter, but should look "bigger." You should buy you some calipers (they are fairly cheap) and they will tell you whether you are putting on lean mass or not. I'm sure you are if you are hitting the gym hard. There is nothing like the feeling of seeing results in the gym....it gets me so fired up to lift!!

[lorina3]

I try to eat at least 6 servings of fruit and vegetables per day, but occasionally it's a little tough.  Overall I try to stay away from fried and fatty foods, though they some how slip in there once in a blue moon.  Ultimately, I subscribe to the belief that moderation for everything is key.  Now let's see how well I moderate over the holidays.

[Aquaguru]

My Tips

1. Cut out all soda, beer, and any high sugar drinks.  Gatorade has a high sugar content. You will lose 10-20 pounds just from this.

2. Try not to eat any processed foods (boxed foods) chips, white bread(tons of sugar)

3. Switch from ground beef to ground turkey.  I like turkey better anyway it has a better taste with no chemicals

4. Portions everyone probably eats more than they should.  Your body will adapt in a week or two

5. Eat more times a day.  I try for 6 times a day for 250 cal each time(1500 cal a day).  This will increase your metabolism

6. Drink water. Recommended is 64 oz (8 glasses).  What I do is fill up a old milk gallon and make sure that I drink it all throughout the day.

[saevel25]

Quote:

This will increase your metabolism

Not really sure that is true, because metabolism is based on calorie intake and fitness level. If you eat 1500 calories per day, your body will recognize 1500, but if you do 3-500's then you will spike after those meals and crash before you eat your next meal. Your average metabolism should be very similar, your just going to feel that classic lack of energy were you feel like crap.

Besides that, i agree with you on all those points. Though i am having a hard time with water because i heard that the Floride that they put in water replaces calcium in your bones making them weaker. Also they hurt your teeth, which is counter to what we thought, dentist are finding that Floride will put pits in your teeth. Also Floride is a toxic element as well... So until i find out how much i am drinking from tap here were i live, i might search out bottle water from areas with lower floride intake.